Do we have too many SLF/Pax on this forum now??
well how will that be policed? Do you think the site owners will pay someone to check these credentials or will that be left to the poor overworked Mods? I mod another couple of sites and take it from me it's impossible.
Commercial sites such as Facebook etc can't control who posts and I'm sure there are enough people with access to VPN's etc who would run rings around any enforcement.
Of course it's not in the interest of the site owners to restrict posters anyway - the more they have the more they can charge the advertisers.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
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And how often will these credentials have to be renewed? You know, other than a medical doctor who is issued a certificate that makes him a professional for lifetime, we pilots cease to be pilots the day we retire or lose our medical. After that day we can only fly as passengers just like everybody else. That day will come for all of us. Will be be excluded from your special forum section after that?
The world continually changes around us; so too aviation, and Pprune.
At best we might only direct change, but risking unwanted outcome or unforeseen effect.
Many of the issues stem from external change; the internet being a substitute for thinking and reflection. Managing this requires self disciple, thus start with ourselves. Think before we react, consider what has been written, ignore the irrelevant, learn from other's points of view, and as proffesionals set the example.
From this we should achieve a net gain, not perfection, but sufficient reward for the mental effort and time expended.
At best we might only direct change, but risking unwanted outcome or unforeseen effect.
Many of the issues stem from external change; the internet being a substitute for thinking and reflection. Managing this requires self disciple, thus start with ourselves. Think before we react, consider what has been written, ignore the irrelevant, learn from other's points of view, and as proffesionals set the example.
From this we should achieve a net gain, not perfection, but sufficient reward for the mental effort and time expended.
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Moderator
The oldtimers here maintain a link to PPRuNe's heritage, and their historical point of view contributes a lot. Some are non pilots, yet their wisdom is invaluable. Through my aviation career, I have worked with many non pilot aviation professionals, and am reminded that flying aircraft is only one part of professional aviation. Newcomers are welcomed here too. It's just best when posters make posts which either are based on their knowledge (rather than amateur speculation and regurgitating non factual information), or, are fair questions, which can invite excellent discussion.
There are lots of sub forums here, so you can find a place where your interest may be more central. R&N is a bit of a catch all, and often moderators will move threads to a more appropriate forum. The recent turbulence topic was actually three threads started in two forums, where were all merged into one.
Welcome aviation people, and please post within the guidelines and words which make you proud of what you wrote!
There are lots of sub forums here, so you can find a place where your interest may be more central. R&N is a bit of a catch all, and often moderators will move threads to a more appropriate forum. The recent turbulence topic was actually three threads started in two forums, where were all merged into one.
Welcome aviation people, and please post within the guidelines and words which make you proud of what you wrote!
Doctors lose their license on retirement too
I agree some of the contributions are a little annoying but how do you limit membership? Pilots, medical personnel, engineers, meterorologists, geopolitical experts (routing changes), the list goes on and on....
I agree some of the contributions are a little annoying but how do you limit membership? Pilots, medical personnel, engineers, meterorologists, geopolitical experts (routing changes), the list goes on and on....
Not to mention air traffic controllers who can contribute greatly to ATC related incidents. Even anecdotes from the past can be valid. Many have learned valid lessons from those experiences. Nevertheless, there is quite an amount of tosh at times. We just have to trust the mods to weed them out.
I like it as it is. I'm a professional in the aviation industry but an amateur as a PPL pilot. It doesn't take long to recognise who usually has something valuable to say and who doesn't and the likes of tdracer (other contributors are available) teach me a lot.
Threads like the Singapore incident are both informative and entertaining.
Threads like the Singapore incident are both informative and entertaining.
Lets not forget that ‘SLF’ for a large part of us are responsible for keeping our employers in business and deserve a little more respect if not tolerance.
They join this forum to get their questions answered and that should be applauded.
Now…people pretending to hold aviation credentials…
They join this forum to get their questions answered and that should be applauded.
Now…people pretending to hold aviation credentials…
Not true unless allowed to lapse - at least in the UK. A doctor friend has just retired and is keeping her accreditation current so she can practise ad hoc.
(Apologies for thread drift)
And - back on topic - some of us "ignorant SLF" are in fact aviation professionals, we just happen to have jobs that don't necessarily involve flying the things. I come here primarily to learn, and find in general that this place is enriched immeasurably by the broad spectrum of expertise and experience of its contributors, pilot or not.
(Apologies for thread drift)
And - back on topic - some of us "ignorant SLF" are in fact aviation professionals, we just happen to have jobs that don't necessarily involve flying the things. I come here primarily to learn, and find in general that this place is enriched immeasurably by the broad spectrum of expertise and experience of its contributors, pilot or not.
The tragic Singapore flight SQ321 has, quite rightly and understandably, generated much interest and concern across the media, the public, and the world.
But this forum in not primarily for the media and the public.
The contributions, views and comments from passengers and the public on the (now 3 I think) threads re SQ321 are numerous.
And so, the contributions and concerns from genuine pilots (and pro crew) are masked and distorted by the public.
Is it time to review the membership criteria, or somehow limit their contributions??
But this forum in not primarily for the media and the public.
The contributions, views and comments from passengers and the public on the (now 3 I think) threads re SQ321 are numerous.
And so, the contributions and concerns from genuine pilots (and pro crew) are masked and distorted by the public.
Is it time to review the membership criteria, or somehow limit their contributions??
Speaking both as an SLF myself and a long-term PPRuNer, historically this site was quite inclusive. Notionally for pilots, it welcomed other professionals working in the aviation industry as well as understanding that many SLF had significant travel experience and a different but no less valid perspective. Also, there was a recognition that todays enthusiasts were potentially tomorrows professionals and that educating and encouraging them was preferable to excluding them. It was an enlightened view and in my opinion remains so.
Having said that, there are times when we should have the good judgement to take a step back and let the professionals take centre stage, but there's something about incidents and accidents that draws a crowd who are convinced that they have some unique and specific insight and are determined to share it, and the signal to noise ratio goes down accordingly. In that respect, the genuine professionals have my sympathy.
I'm afraid the only practical answer is active moderation, and I say this in the knowledge that the Mods do this in their own time, without reimbursement, and often with little gratitude. But in my experience they're pretty good in these situations at filtering out the repetition, petty arguments and pointless digressions.
Speaking personally, what bugs me are those posters who try to pass themselves off as being something they're not. Who think that making very bold claims and authoritative statements in the immediate aftermath of an incident like yesterdays endows them with some sort of credibility. So if I had to make a suggestion it would be that those of us who contribute to these sort of discussions as non-professionals should identify themselves as such. That way their contributions can be judged accordingly.
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Long time, as in decades, lurker and SLF here.
As much as I do understand the irritations of those with credentials when SLF like me and those who have nothing more than an avid love of all things aviation related, being able to enter a forum like this and read, digest and learn to understand things is invaluable, especially when accidents and incidents happen such as the tragedy aboard the Singapore Airlines flight.
Those of us who are not in the "business" can be bombarded with spectacular headlines and often spurious "experts" within the media who throw all sorts of theories and speculation in every direction. This can build irrational fear and a lack of understanding amongst SLF and their families.
Reading the various accounts of true experiences from actual pilots and crew on this forum makes everything easier to understand and in cases of CAT and other forms of turbulence, which I have experienced more than once over the years, the pilot's eye view can be invaluable as a tool to prepare for the next potential experience.
Before flying one of those less comfortable routes I have often come on here as a guest to read up on that area or route, just to get a feel for what might lay ahead. I can relate to those less than comfortable flights such as Paris to Singapore, Paris to Santiago de Chile where Mother Nature has a nasty habit of making an otherwise pleasant flight feel like a trip on a demented trampoline.
This forum has made it easier to find out why this sort of demented trampoline happens, how to make it as comfortable and safe as possible and having pilots and their crews on here explain things in a measured way that puts mind at rest.
One media outlet currently is blatently blaming Boeing (just because Boeing have spoken out and given their apologies and condolences) and actively encouraging people to boycott Boeing. Now I realise that Boeing have been having a pretty bad time in recent years, but even they cannot be blamed for bad weather.
These things happen and often without any human fault. Weather happens and apart from cloud seeding, it cannot be blamed on a human.
Speculation when things go awry is normal, we humans do it all the time.
This forum gives people somewhere to ask pertinent questions, read experiences and get the gist of the variables that happen in the art of flight. The world is richer for those experiences and for that I thank each and every one of you because without you and your experiences and knowledge, SLF like me would be lost in a sea of media frenzy and innaccuracies.
As much as I do understand the irritations of those with credentials when SLF like me and those who have nothing more than an avid love of all things aviation related, being able to enter a forum like this and read, digest and learn to understand things is invaluable, especially when accidents and incidents happen such as the tragedy aboard the Singapore Airlines flight.
Those of us who are not in the "business" can be bombarded with spectacular headlines and often spurious "experts" within the media who throw all sorts of theories and speculation in every direction. This can build irrational fear and a lack of understanding amongst SLF and their families.
Reading the various accounts of true experiences from actual pilots and crew on this forum makes everything easier to understand and in cases of CAT and other forms of turbulence, which I have experienced more than once over the years, the pilot's eye view can be invaluable as a tool to prepare for the next potential experience.
Before flying one of those less comfortable routes I have often come on here as a guest to read up on that area or route, just to get a feel for what might lay ahead. I can relate to those less than comfortable flights such as Paris to Singapore, Paris to Santiago de Chile where Mother Nature has a nasty habit of making an otherwise pleasant flight feel like a trip on a demented trampoline.
This forum has made it easier to find out why this sort of demented trampoline happens, how to make it as comfortable and safe as possible and having pilots and their crews on here explain things in a measured way that puts mind at rest.
One media outlet currently is blatently blaming Boeing (just because Boeing have spoken out and given their apologies and condolences) and actively encouraging people to boycott Boeing. Now I realise that Boeing have been having a pretty bad time in recent years, but even they cannot be blamed for bad weather.
These things happen and often without any human fault. Weather happens and apart from cloud seeding, it cannot be blamed on a human.
Speculation when things go awry is normal, we humans do it all the time.
This forum gives people somewhere to ask pertinent questions, read experiences and get the gist of the variables that happen in the art of flight. The world is richer for those experiences and for that I thank each and every one of you because without you and your experiences and knowledge, SLF like me would be lost in a sea of media frenzy and innaccuracies.
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To add to my previous (admittedly self serving!) post, it is a great privilege for me to have access to the experiences, knowledge and opinion of some remarkable people - people I know I would never likely meet in real life.
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I for one have become a Lurker. I have more important things to do with my life than read and comment on every topic. I dip in and out if something takes my interest.
SQ321 MH17, MH370 AF447 etc to me, after the initial shock and first page or two i can happily leave it alone.Till the final report comes out....
To me PPRuNE is , like Wiki and AV Herald, only a reference library..
SQ321 MH17, MH370 AF447 etc to me, after the initial shock and first page or two i can happily leave it alone.Till the final report comes out....
To me PPRuNE is , like Wiki and AV Herald, only a reference library..
PPRuNe has always attracted it’s share of pretenders. The Governor who ended up in jail for other more serious crimes was a serial fantasist. He was also quite entertaining and occasionally informative. The teenage girl who claimed to be a jumbo captain maybe less so. However I don’t think limiting it to professional pilots, however you define them, will improve the site. A system where people validate their credentials is fine by me, but apart from massaging a few egos (mine included) it risks excluding excellent contributions. The met man’s thread is a good example, but there are many others. There is also the cohort of well qualified pilots whose knowledge is a coat not always worn lightly and whose condescending manner can be intensely irritating. In summary I have enjoyed the site for at least a quarter of a century as it is, and hope it continues to entertain and inform us for as long again in a format which works for a lot of people.
I’ve been a PPRuNe member for 15 years and almost never post. Instead, I’m here to learn about aviation from the people who sit at the pointy end of these amazing machines that have made the world a smaller, yet to me all the more fascinating, place.
I’m grateful that these fora exist, because the members here do provide a much more nuanced and educated view of what happens in aviation. Not just the pilots, but all of the aviation professionals who have a hand in designing, building, maintaining, and regulating the machines.
My own lifetime of my own learning about aviation (books, media, discovery flights, sims) has been greatly enhanced by taking in the myriad of viewpoints present here in PPRuNe. I feel much better-prepared to discuss aviation issues with family and friends after gleaning what I can from the discussions that occur here.
I think that the Forum structure on PPRuNe provides an excellent road map to look at and learn about whatever may interest you about aviation, and I’m grateful for my membership. Hopefully PPRuNe will stay as it is.
I’m grateful that these fora exist, because the members here do provide a much more nuanced and educated view of what happens in aviation. Not just the pilots, but all of the aviation professionals who have a hand in designing, building, maintaining, and regulating the machines.
My own lifetime of my own learning about aviation (books, media, discovery flights, sims) has been greatly enhanced by taking in the myriad of viewpoints present here in PPRuNe. I feel much better-prepared to discuss aviation issues with family and friends after gleaning what I can from the discussions that occur here.
I think that the Forum structure on PPRuNe provides an excellent road map to look at and learn about whatever may interest you about aviation, and I’m grateful for my membership. Hopefully PPRuNe will stay as it is.
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Thing is … it’s confidential . To validate my credentials you’d need to see my licence and hence confidential details etc ..
I think a change of name may be appropriate to “ pilots and spotters rumour network “.
To me most posts now seem to be wannabes or pilots who last flew a Trident in 1977. The rest of us are too busy .. doing it .
I think a change of name may be appropriate to “ pilots and spotters rumour network “.
To me most posts now seem to be wannabes or pilots who last flew a Trident in 1977. The rest of us are too busy .. doing it .
I'd like to see extra moderation on the "Accidents and Close Calls" forum.
I don't want to read posts from SLF or Microsoft Flight Simulator "Pilots" who think they can comment because they watched a YouTube video or played FS2020.
I don't want to read posts from SLF or Microsoft Flight Simulator "Pilots" who think they can comment because they watched a YouTube video or played FS2020.
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I’ll give up my account after 20+ years if it involves ID/certificate validation.
Also it gets a little annoying every time a post starts with ‘back in 1963 when I…..’
Moderator
I'd like to see extra moderation on the "Accidents and Close Calls" forum.
I don't want to read posts from SLF or Microsoft Flight Simulator "Pilots" who think they can comment because they watched a YouTube video or played FS2020.
I don't want to read posts from SLF or Microsoft Flight Simulator "Pilots" who think they can comment because they watched a YouTube video or played FS2020.
But, at the heart of PPRuNe, is the intent to promote discussion, that intent is not well served by deleting lots of posts simply 'cause they are not the smartest on the screen!