Ual-SWA Jumpseat Incident

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by olster

There is an amber band on the speed tape which reflects 1.3 g margin to stick shake. It is variable under certain conditions, anti ice on / off, flap position etc. Speedbrake use has a small influence I understand. It has different interpretations high / low altitude. There is a broader description in the FCTM. Essentially if you are encroaching the amber band, there is reduced manoeuvre margin. However that is easily corrected as described by cancel speedbrake, add thrust and / or select flaps. My interpretation of events here is that ‘clean’ refers to the top of the amber band. The minimum clean speed is a green icon which is referenced to weight and does not change with speedbrake use.

Understood. Exactly the same as the 767 then. Is there a prohibition on the 737 against operating in the amber band? If so it's an interesting choice of colour.

On the 767 the top of amber band is referred to as minimum maneuver speed, and full speedbrake at min clean will nearly always bring the amber band above min clean. The top of the band ensures 25+15° of bank and the middle ensures 15+15° of bank to stick shaker. It's amber because it means 'caution' so if you're wings level (ie not maneuvering!) then you can fly in the amber band with caution.

[Squawk7777]

Originally Posted by zero/zero

It’s not me implying… it’s literally what the phrase means! At my airline if you have a bad day then you turn yourself in (after discussion with the other crew). Then if and when the FDM team/regulator comes knocking you refer them to the ASAP/ASR that you’ve already submitted.

Those kind of phrases belong at a Vegas Bachelor Party, not in a modern professional flight deck environment

Do you set standards now? Your word and interpretation is the law? You must be very fun to fly with. Sounds to me you have a lot to learn with regards to CRM. Got news for you, I have flown for a UK airline and your superiority attitude is baseless.

[olster]

Broadly correct rude stuff without getting into too much detail.

[zero/zero]

Originally Posted by Squawk7777

Do you set standards now? Your word and interpretation is the law? You must be very fun to fly with. Sounds to me you have a lot to learn with regards to CRM. Got news for you, I have flown for a UK airline and your superiority attitude is baseless.

If you think that suggesting airlines should function with open reporting and just culture is “superiority attitude”, then you have very thin skin

[172_driver]

Can anyone explain this to someone who's never flown 737?

As I recall from the 737 clean speed (annotated as UP) on the speed tape did not change with speed brake selection. It was fixed at Vref40+70. Most pilots never operated below UP-speed without selecting flaps, even though UP speed was well above min. maneuver speed (top of amber band). The airspeed low warning was not triggered until well into the amber band.

[island_airphoto]

Originally Posted by Squawk7777

Do you set standards now? Your word and interpretation is the law? You must be very fun to fly with. Sounds to me you have a lot to learn with regards to CRM. Got news for you, I have flown for a UK airline and your superiority attitude is baseless.

I'll give him a ride, but he has to wear a blindfold and I'll switch on crew isolate on the audio.
Seriously, who would EVER give anyone a ride in a car, boat, airplane, submarine, or snowmobile who thought of themselves as junior law enforcement waiting to find something to violate you on?

[Retired DC9 driver]

Sometimes a jump seater can help the operation.
Years ago, I was generously offered the jump seat on a US carrier. I flew at the time for a Canadian major Airline, but also have an FAA license.
Anyway the flight was full, and I was heading out West for a Middle Fork river trip. Only way I could make it.
I was offered a headset, but otherwise stayed quiet. Inbound to Chicago, the new (flustered?) First Officer got on the wrong frequency . Silence, when he switched over, and somehow he couldn't get back to his previous freq..Very busy airspace.
Silence in the cockpit. The Captain wasn't happy at all. Finally after squirming in my seat, I said "Try 119.2" . I had flown into ORD for years and knew all the freqs going in or out.
ORD TRACON comes on, "Glad to hear from you XXX. We thought we had lost you"
Silence the rest of the flight except for SOPs. Though the Captain did say something about "having to depend on a jump-seater to get on the correct freq"..

True story
ps. When I made Captain I always offered the jump seat to pilots, our own flight attendants, even pilots with other Airlines, with proper ID. A professional courtesy that saved me a few times.
ps. This was all pre 9-11. Now foreign Air Carrier pilots can't ride in cockpit jump seat on US carriers. As a retired Captain, even I can't ride jump seat on my own Airline.

[Nose Rider]

Originally Posted by IRRenewal

As this is an anonymous forum you have as much right to question my experience as I have to question yours. And you are right, I have no experience flying in the US. Having said that, if you feel the need to question my experience as a pilot it basically indicates you have run out of reasonable arguments to counteract my point of view. I have carried hundreds if not thousands of jumpseaters during my career. It is just that with us the default is that they sit in the cabin, not on the flightdeck jumpseat, and I do consider that the safer option.

As a former airline pilot myself that seems like a reasonable way to handle the jump seat to me. If there is a seat in the back, take a seat in the back. If not, come on up. As a jump seater I would never ask to sit up front if there was a seat in the back, especially if you work for another airline. That is just being courteous to the crew. It's common sense.