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Boeing at X-Roads?

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Old 13th Mar 2024, 12:51
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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No end in sight it seems:

FAA issues another Boeing 737 MAX AD | (airinsight.com)
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 16:03
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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if it's boeing, i'm not going.

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Old 13th Mar 2024, 17:36
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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What is the problem that is causing such concern?

Did the maintenance manual specify that no lubricant shall be used?
Did the maintenance manual allow use of only a specific lubricant?

I have never used Dawn as a lubricant as I usually have Costco brand on hand and it probably is just as effective.


Last edited by EXDAC; 13th Mar 2024 at 21:05. Reason: reposting the big picture not necessary
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 18:13
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EXDAC
What is the problem that is causing such concern?

Did the maintenance manual specify that no lubricant shall be used?
Did the maintenance maual allow use of only a specific lubricant?

I have never used Dawn as a lubricant as I usually have Costco brand on hand and it probably is just as effective.
Aviation is an endeavor where you just make up expedients?

https://www.avm-mag.com/the-deadlies...tenance-legacy



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Old 13th Mar 2024, 18:18
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Originally Posted by Jonty
I agree totally, but they need to sort their sh!t out, and fast.
We already have Airbus manufacturing in the US. Why do we care at all about Boeing's civilian manufacturing business?

Let's force Boeing to sell its defense business to RTX or Northrop, lobby Airbus to greatly increase production in the US, and tell Boeing "good luck guys."
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 18:30
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by remi
We already have Airbus manufacturing in the US. Why do we care at all about Boeing's civilian manufacturing business?

Let's force Boeing to sell its defense business to RTX or Northrop, lobby Airbus to greatly increase production in the US, and tell Boeing "good luck guys."
Who are the "us" in "[l]et's force...."? It will be interesting to read how you imagine (or are planning) this to occur.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 18:34
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Brilliant! Let's have only one big manufacturer. (X airline): "how much for the 20 A350s?" "Airbus: $6 billion" (X airline) "but... No discount?" (Airbus): "we're the only one with WB capabilities friend. Take it or leave it"

Is how competition works clear and why we SHOULD have Boeing and Airbus AND a robust Embraer?
Originally Posted by remi
We already have Airbus manufacturing in the US. Why do we care at all about Boeing's civilian manufacturing business?

Let's force Boeing to sell its defense business to RTX or Northrop, lobby Airbus to greatly increase production in the US, and tell Boeing "good luck guys."
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 19:09
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by phantomsphorever
Boeing's response, from the article:
“These directives are unrelated, affecting different airplane models with different designs. The 787 NPRM is intended to address an isolated issue observed in fleet operations while the 737 MAX NPRM is intended to address a remote concern that has never occurred in service. Neither is an immediate safety-of-flight concern based on extensive engineering analysis. In both cases, the FAA NPRM proposes fleet actions that Boeing previously recommended to operators.

As this shows, our extensive efforts to further improve airplane safety include systematically reviewing issues in the in-service fleet and also using modeling analysis to identify potential issues that have never occurred. Then we work within Boeing and transparently with customers and suppliers, under the oversight of our regulator, to address any concerns.”
I am not qualified to analyse Boeing's response. It does come across as rather dismissive. If it indeed is, are Boeing justified in their attitude?
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 20:56
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Marsh
Boeing's response, from the article:

I am not qualified to analyse Boeing's response. It does come across as rather dismissive. If it indeed is, are Boeing justified in their attitude?
"Don't blame us; it's the FAA's fault!"
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 20:58
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Claybird
Brilliant! Let's have only one big manufacturer. (X airline): "how much for the 20 A350s?" "Airbus: $6 billion" (X airline) "but... No discount?" (Airbus): "we're the only one with WB capabilities friend. Take it or leave it"

Is how competition works clear and why we SHOULD have Boeing and Airbus AND a robust Embraer?
Comac has that covered. 🇨🇳🛫
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 21:03
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by remi
Aviation is an endeavor where you just make up expedients?
Yes, I do, when working on my experimental aircraft since I am the builder and the FAA authorized inspector.

I am well aware of the DC-10 accident and the engine change was in violation of maintenance manual procedures. You did not answer what the maintenance manual says about the use of lubricants for door seal installation.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 21:51
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Marsh
Boeing's response, from the article:

I am not qualified to analyse Boeing's response. It does come across as rather dismissive. If it indeed is, are Boeing justified in their attitude?
I don't get this either. The FAA are saying quite straightforwardly that wire chafing and thus short circuits has led to uncommanded spoiler operation, including one uncommanded hardover, on the Max. Seems a straightforward issue to examine. Why ever would Boeing say it was a remote concern that had never happened. Is the comment about the same as the original ?
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 22:01
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Marsh
Boeing's response, from the article:

I am not qualified to analyse Boeing's response. It does come across as rather dismissive. If it indeed is, are Boeing justified in their attitude?
FAA issues AD's on a regular basis - if you want to spend several hours going down a rabbit hole, go to the FAA (or EASA) website and start listing all the AD's against any particular aircraft model, regardless of manufacturer. Most aircraft models have dozens - ones that have been around a while have hundreds.

It's quite basic - airframe and engine manufactures release service bulletins - a lot of service bulletins. Some operators incorporate them religiously, others not so much. Way back when, I was on a team reviewing some Boeing service bulletins and their incorporation rates. At least at that time, Boeing had three categories - 'Normal', 'Unusually significant', and 'Alert'. 'Alert' basically meant there were potential safety implications. The fleetwide incorporation rate for 'Normal' was barely 50%, 'Unusually significant' around 70%, and 'Alert' (that were not AD'd) less that 90% (at least in my experience in Propulsion, an AD was basically automatic if the S/B was "Alert"). Even AD'd ones were only in the mid to high 90% range - still meaningfully less than 100% (doesn't say much for the regulatory processes in a few countries). The airframer or engine manufacturer has no way make an operator incorporate a service bulletin - only the mechanism for that is for the regulators to issue an AD (although an FAA AD technically only applies to US operators, it's standard practice for all the other regulatory agencies to copy the FAA or EASA AD's verbatim.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 22:46
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EXDAC
Yes, I do, when working on my experimental aircraft since I am the builder and the FAA authorized inspector.

I am well aware of the DC-10 accident and the engine change was in violation of maintenance manual procedures. You did not answer what the maintenance manual says about the use of lubricants for door seal installation.
If it says nothing, use nothing. If it says something, do that. If it's unclear, ask the manufacturer and get it in writing.

Simplest thing in the world
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 22:47
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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The National Transportation Safety Board still does not know who worked on the failed door plug on Alaska Airlines flight 1282 and Boeing overwrote surveillance footage from the repair facility where the plug was reinstalled ahead of the flightearlier this year, according to a letter Wednesday from NTSB Chairman Jennifer Homendy to the Senate Commerce Committee.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/boeing-ove...y?id=108084196
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 22:49
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by remi
If it says nothing, use nothing. If it says something, do that. If it's unclear, ask the manufacturer and get it in writing.

Simplest thing in the world
Except that you either don't know what it says or refuse to quote it.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 23:02
  #477 (permalink)  
 
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Using washing up liquid is sometimes done when fitting car windscreens as it lubricants the string used to pull the rubber seal and allow the glass to slide into place. I’m surprised it’s used in aviation as manufacturers will normally specify a certain product which is the same as something you’d find in a hardware shop but costs at least 10 times as much.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 23:18
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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When asked about the overwritten footage, Boeing responded: "Consistent with standard practice, video recordings are maintained on a rolling 30 day basis."
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 00:51
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EXDAC
You did not answer what the maintenance manual says about the use of lubricants for door seal installation.
I have no idea what the manual says about lubricant for that procedure, but it's likely that the FAA wouldn't have cited in in the report if using Dawn was compliant.
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 03:50
  #480 (permalink)  
 
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https://shop.boeing.com/aviation-supply/p/634-1GL=2U
Lots of lube available at Aviall
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