EVTOL news and progress - do we need a new dedicated section?
It depends on the design as there are a number of variations. With the Joby all props transition forward in horizontal flight. On the Archer the forward props transition horizontal but the aft props are fixed vertical. The Volocopter keeps all props vertical. And then there is the Jaunt that has a single main rotor with fixed horizontal props which will actually pursue Part 27/29 certification vs the new up and coming eVTOL rules.
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I am following closely the Volocopter project as the firm that build them also build gliders ( the DGs) and mu clubs own few of the them , so i sometimes go to their factory and watch them.,
The first ones will have to be piloted, , The only model authorized to fly at the moment is the 2 seats 2X model, so only one paying pax. so the early economics based on autonomous flight for 2 paying pax is not there. Plus, unlike now with the prototypes, commercial operations means minimum CPL , so expensive pilots EASA has clearly said no difference for e-aircraft that for current ones,: 30 minutes reserves, which cut OPS range by 60-70% , next is secured Helipad or airfield to Helipad/airfield ,( some called Vertiports) not random front doors to office buildings. Fist live commercial operational ops planned next year Paris for the Olympics. Likely to be VFR ops only. On fixed special designated routes . Rules on overflying large number of people still unclear. Current trials flights in Pontoise airfield to validate the concept.
So in Europe at least , not that simple.
The first ones will have to be piloted, , The only model authorized to fly at the moment is the 2 seats 2X model, so only one paying pax. so the early economics based on autonomous flight for 2 paying pax is not there. Plus, unlike now with the prototypes, commercial operations means minimum CPL , so expensive pilots EASA has clearly said no difference for e-aircraft that for current ones,: 30 minutes reserves, which cut OPS range by 60-70% , next is secured Helipad or airfield to Helipad/airfield ,( some called Vertiports) not random front doors to office buildings. Fist live commercial operational ops planned next year Paris for the Olympics. Likely to be VFR ops only. On fixed special designated routes . Rules on overflying large number of people still unclear. Current trials flights in Pontoise airfield to validate the concept.
So in Europe at least , not that simple.
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If you find pilots for that at all. Right now (in Europe at least) the airlines are again hiring and even in my sector, business aviation, we start to see a shortage in pilots. Unless you pay these people very well you won't get any. A very well paid pilot carrying one to three passengers at at time will make the operation quite expensive. And what about the times when these vehicles need recharging? In theory, you would need two aircraft per pilot - one that is flown and one that is being charged. Makes the operation even more expensive. In my view these things need to be fully autonomous in order to make any sense, at least commercially.
Yes. And the challenge is the first (propulsion/lift) failure case, when the automation needs to bring the craft safely down within 30 seconds or whatever time the crippled system has left.
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And not only how but where to bring it down in an urban area. Landing it on cars or on pavements full of people is not really an option.
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Interestingly I've found there is already a "niche" airport shuttle operating from this Manhattan heliport. This is to EWR and uses conventional rotorcraft with a similar price structure - $195 - to the Joby propsal of around $200. Clearly using an old single engine Jetranger over New York is safer than new multi rotor eVTOLs....
At least they can count on some proven water rescue services in the Hudson river. To my mind there is a similar Heli service in Las Vegas if your luck did hold up in the casinos.
So yes, there are some biz cases. If they are enough to pay the development costs, future will tell.
So yes, there are some biz cases. If they are enough to pay the development costs, future will tell.
The FAA currently has a “Powered Lift” category for pilot certificates but I don’t see any active certificates on the FAA pilot statistics page. Just a couple months ago they put out a NPRM to revise the training required and to require type ratings for all powers lift aircraft.
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The FAA currently has a “Powered Lift” category for pilot certificates but I don’t see any active certificates on the FAA pilot statistics page. Just a couple months ago they put out a NPRM to revise the training required and to require type ratings for all powers lift aircraft.
Archer would like to have this as part of the United Airlines Aviate ecosystem. the scheme as follows.
1) CPL at United aviate academy in Arizona (former Lufthansa).
2) Archer pilot for 1000 hrs. (Under United banner)
3) United Express pilot until 1000 PIC. (Mesa/gojet/commutair)
4)United Airlines Mainline
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Also, a few years back FAA allowed powerlift pilots the ability to log count horizontal flight time as “airplane”. This largely benefited the osprey community who were having difficulty getting airline jobs due to CPL ATPL requirements.
Minimum of 1,500 hours of total documented flight time. Minimum of 1,000 hours of fixed wing turbine time is preferred (airplane and powered lift combined). Minimum of 250 hours PIC or SIC as defined in 14 CFR §61.159(a)(5) in an airplane category.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/careers/pilots/hiring-faqs
Last edited by bafanguy; 17th Nov 2023 at 22:56.
Found this from 2019 from a Delta posting. At least they were thinking about it back then:
Announcing a change to our minimum pilot requirements!
Effective immediately, Delta will allow pilots of aircraft in the Powered Lift category (e.g. the V22 Osprey, AV8B Harrier, and F35B) to count 90% of your Powered Lift flight time toward our requirement of 1,000 hours fixed wing turbine time.
Announcing a change to our minimum pilot requirements!
Effective immediately, Delta will allow pilots of aircraft in the Powered Lift category (e.g. the V22 Osprey, AV8B Harrier, and F35B) to count 90% of your Powered Lift flight time toward our requirement of 1,000 hours fixed wing turbine time.
I think we absolutely need a separate forum so all the EVTOL BS Fantastical Bafflegab, and Brown rice news posts can be sequestered there and not take up space on real aircraft forums.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 18th Nov 2023 at 16:58.
Found this from 2019 from a Delta posting. At least they were thinking about it back then:
Announcing a change to our minimum pilot requirements!
Effective immediately, Delta will allow pilots of aircraft in the Powered Lift category (e.g. the V22 Osprey, AV8B Harrier, and F35B) to count 90% of your Powered Lift flight time toward our requirement of 1,000 hours fixed wing turbine time.
Announcing a change to our minimum pilot requirements!
Effective immediately, Delta will allow pilots of aircraft in the Powered Lift category (e.g. the V22 Osprey, AV8B Harrier, and F35B) to count 90% of your Powered Lift flight time toward our requirement of 1,000 hours fixed wing turbine time.
I think the Delta hiring gods are slowly coming around to seeing that Osprey pilots might be able to fly a B-717.
Don't get me started on the hiring gods...
absolutely….. this site is for pilots. Non-pilots should go elsewhere on their own website!