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BA pilot sacked for snorting coke from, err, well...and then trying to fly home.

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BA pilot sacked for snorting coke from, err, well...and then trying to fly home.

Old 28th Sep 2023, 09:04
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Not everyone here is a professional pilot, AE, - (especially the subject of this OP !). There are other airline industry members, and also interested non-pilots and passengers etc.

FWIW; the four airlines I have flown for designated a junior F/O with two stripes, a senior F/O with three, and a Captain with four. We never had flight engineers. (Cadets at flight school can have one stripe).
Thanks for the response Uplinker.and Cessnapete,
As I stated in my previous post, in the U.S. we haven’t had crew members who wear two-stripes for decades now. . One learns something new each day! BTW, I am a pilot, since 1983, much to Atlantic Explorers disbelief.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 09:27
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Sorry, it's a particular bug-bear of mine.

Re: Fatigue - it's a very valid concern in our industry, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

If you are tired or even fatigued, what you need is long good quality sleep, not wasting sleep time by staying up half the night during a lay-over, ingesting alcohol and coke.
I kind of agree, but fatigue is not necessarily countered by a good night’s sleep. It is cumulative and insidious.

The travelling public is orders of magnitude more at risk from pilots who are tired and/or fatigued than ones that are off their heads due to substance abuse. I can pretty much guarantee you that right now round the World, if you took a detailed look there would be a very large amount crews on their 6th sector after a week of earlies, on the 12th night Atlantic this month or getting out of the bunk feeling like crap with 7hrs to go. In terms of risk management, this is where 99.999% of the problem lies but it gets lost in the noise while a lone individual doing something ultra-stupid makes the headlines.

As professionals and diurnal mammals, we accept that some of the time we will not be 100% but have developed coping mechanisms. People say that if you feel tired then stop, but that would mean a lot of aviation would cease, especially with modern rostering systems treating FTLs as a target not a limit. The effects of having a few too many the night before are indistinguishable from tiredness/fatigue so that’s why it doesn’t make much sense in reality to give so much attention to events that are pretty rare but ignore the gorilla in the room.

From what I read, the guy was stopped before he was able to operate the aircraft, and at the end of the day, if someone is obviously not right, then they get told to go back to the hotel / see a doctor / sort their life out / stay away from the aeroplane.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 09:48
  #43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Sorry, it's a particular bug-bear of mine.

Re: Fatigue - it's a very valid concern in our industry, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

If you are tired or even fatigued, what you need is long good quality sleep, not wasting sleep time by staying up half the night during a lay-over, ingesting alcohol and coke.
I don't see the issue, he was stood down and got an excellent sleep returning to the firing squad.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 10:37
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FUMR
What a total waste of a good career. What in heaven's name was going on in his mind?
His little mind?
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:06
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Stripes BA BEA

In the old days non military started as second officers with one stripe..after two years a second stripe as acting first officer then followed by first officer after another 2 years….three stripes was senior first officer and needed an ATPL after yet another 2 years..4 stripes came after 20 years for some of us.
The aesops fable disaster Staines fable produced by national geographic upgraded the two second officers to two and three stripes…IMHO it was to deflect the criticism in the Lane inquiry from BEA management.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:16
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BA is totally out of order here. Instead of sacking him they should be supporting him through his rehabilitation in a drug treatment programme before returning him to his flying duties. Disgusting BA!!!
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:21
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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MOLG, What utter bollux.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:26
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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fish

Originally Posted by Bergerie1
MOLG, What utter bollux.
GOTCHA
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:28
  #49 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FUMR
What a total waste of a good career. What in heaven's name was going on in his mind?
I think a lot of booze, drugs and sex.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 11:52
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Assuming BA suffered additional costs due to delays, refreshments or hotel costs once found guilty by the court of BA will they seek damages from him?
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 12:23
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V-Jet
Two very important questions are left unanswered:
1) Where was Prince Andrew at the time?
2) Why wasn’t Russell Brand involved - or was he?
Missing the Trump angle too.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 12:35
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
BA is totally out of order here. Instead of sacking him they should be supporting him through his rehabilitation in a drug treatment programme before returning him to his flying duties. Disgusting BA!!!
I had a run in with a command failure who rotated before V1 during my very long upgrading in SR..he was sacked but reinstated after he revealed he was an alcoholic ..dried out in a clinic and worked in the technical department until two years after the incident then offered an Airbus course.. IMHO a far better way to treat staff who obviously have health problems rather than hanging them out to dry which occasionally leads to suicide. It also reduces the risk of hiding addictions from the company rather than seeking help.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 13:23
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
BA is totally out of order here. Instead of sacking him they should be supporting him through his rehabilitation in a drug treatment programme before returning him to his flying duties. Disgusting BA!!!
I realise you're not serious, but reading the texts with which he hung himself out to dry, it seems this was the first time he had used cocaine.
He might (probably does) have an alcohol problem, but he doesn't appear to have a cocaine addiction problem, he has an impulse control issue. Not only was he doing singularly stupid stuff while he thought he was "in Vegas", he boasted about it.

He has shown us something of his character, and intoxication is more a symptom than a cause. Rehab won't fix irresponsible ****. Even drug and alcohol free I wouldn't trust him with my pushbike, never mind millions of dollars worth of aircraft and hundreds of lives.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 13:37
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Certainly will put a different picture in my mind in the future when I hear the term Line Abreast Formation.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 14:10
  #55 (permalink)  
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Inevitably, there will be a range of opinions when discussing an issue such as this. They will always be the outliers – there will be the ones that feel that he was a ‘poor lost soul’ and his mother made him do it and we should show mercy. At the other end, there will be those who are at the ‘hang ‘em/flog ‘em’ end of the scale! I would humbly suggest that regardless of where you sit on the scale, there are certain absolutes that guarantee removal from a career in aviation. One of those is the taking of Class A drugs. There and then, on the spot, your career is over. It does not really matter why you did it, but the fact is you did it. Your career as an airline pilot has ended.

Last edited by Count of Monte Bisto; 28th Sep 2023 at 14:28.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 16:23
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Snorting coke ... and then trying to fly home.

With or without an airplane?
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 17:59
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One question for those who seem to think a pilot indulging in a coke and alcohol fueled bender the night before being at the pointy end of a long-haul flight is being overblown.

Would you willingly be SLF on that flight knowing that about the pilot?

Because I sure as hell wouldn't.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 18:19
  #58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Would you willingly be SLF on that flight knowing that about the pilot? Because I sure as hell wouldn't.
Of course no one would. But what about being SLF on a flight were the pilots are abusing another stimulant drug, the only way they can force themselves to get through their 6th early in a row ahead of 4 sector bad weather day? Infact they are so hooked they will use this drug several times daily. Cabin crew even get it for them.

the drug of course being caffeine but it’s addition and use is widespread. 1000s of users a day. Sometimes even me. Airlines even encourage it to avoid fatigue offloads! Yet no one is worried or concerned. Of course I know there’s differences but you will see my point
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 18:36
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Originally Posted by V_2
Of course no one would. But what about being SLF on a flight were the pilots are abusing another stimulant drug, the only way they can force themselves to get through their 6th early in a row ahead of 4 sector bad weather day? Infact they are so hooked they will use this drug several times daily. Cabin crew even get it for them.

the drug of course being caffeine but it’s addition and use is widespread. 1000s of users a day. Sometimes even me. Airlines even encourage it to avoid fatigue offloads! Yet no one is worried or concerned. Of course I know there’s differences but you will see my point
Have you (or someone you know) tried coke? I'm embarrassed to admit I did a couple of times in my misspent youth - fortunately I didn't particularly like it and never did it again, but I knew people who did. The effect on them was devastating.
To compare the effect of coke with coffee is simply ludicrous. One gives you a mild boost - the other leaves you totally wired for many hours, then lets you down with a resounding crash. If that crash occurs while you a trying to do something like drive (or pilot an aircraft) the effect can be catastrophic. Reportedly, the left seat pilot in the Trans-Colorado accident I linked earlier was right in the middle of that cocaine crash during final approach - which left him totally incapable of responding when the right seat pilot totally botched the approach and flew into the ground.
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Old 28th Sep 2023, 18:42
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Originally Posted by V_2
the drug of course being caffeine
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