Virgin Atlantic pilots consider strike over fatigue
How come some office worker, who works maximum 8 hr days (or there is trouble), was able to make the law that it's alright for flight crew to work an 18 hr day............When you're done, drag your bags down the road to a cheap hotel and make sure you're back here in 17hrs to do it all over again. After 168 hrs of this, you can take 36 hrs off. I know your other mates get 48hrs every 120 hrs but this is EASA, you know.
Seriously?.... How in hell did it get to where we are today when it's legal for me to work in the aeroplane for 18 hrs and Mr EASA does 8 in his office?
Seriously?.... How in hell did it get to where we are today when it's legal for me to work in the aeroplane for 18 hrs and Mr EASA does 8 in his office?
Big money is what happened: CEOs job is to continually cut operating costs, and crews are expensive because they have to be highly trained, highly proficient and highly skilled - you can't just take someone from the job centre and give them a day's induction course.
So if they can 'get away with' using one crew instead of two crews, they will.
This is why we need to stand up for ourselves. Unfortunately - certainly in the UK - the union and the company councils have clearly been nobbled. Strike action is very rarely taken and rarely even considered. EASA FTLs were just nodded in, and all our union does is talk about things. They never actually do anything. They just talk about fatigue, but never do anything about fatigue.
I mean; "controlled rest", i.e. taking a 20 minute nap sitting in your pilot seat, is a real thing !! That is a blatant admission that crews are fatigued - right there.
Can you imagine if a surgeon, in the middle of an operation; with the patient's chest wide open and tubes everywhere; said to his 'junior' doctor alongside him, "jeez, I am so tired, I cannot keep my eyes open any longer. I am going to take controlled rest", and he sits down with his eyes closed for 20 mins, while all the other doctors just stand around and wait; keeping an eye on the patient's pulse and oxygen levels etc. Utterly ludicrous.
Last edited by Uplinker; 7th Jan 2024 at 12:00.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+1, or in fact +100.
Big money is what happened: CEOs job is to continually cut operating costs, and crews are expensive because they have to be highly trained, highly proficient and highly skilled - you can't just take someone from the job centre and give them a day's induction course.
So if they can 'get away with' using one crew instead of two crews, they will.
This is why we need to stand up for ourselves. Unfortunately - certainly in the UK - the union and the company councils have clearly been nobbled. Strike action is very rarely taken and rarely even considered. EASA FTLs were just nodded in, and all our union does is talk about things. They never actually do anything. They just talk about fatigue, but never do anything about fatigue.
I mean; "controlled rest", i.e. taking a 20 minute nap sitting in your pilot seat, is a real thing !! That is a blatant admission that crews are fatigued - right there.
Can you imagine if a surgeon, in the middle of an operation; with the patient's chest wide open and tubes everywhere; said to his 'junior' doctor alongside him, "jeez, I am so tired, I cannot keep my eyes open any longer. I am going to take controlled rest", and he sits down with his eyes closed for 20 mins, while all the other doctors just stand around and wait; keeping an eye on the patient's pulse and oxygen levels etc. Utterly ludicrous.
Big money is what happened: CEOs job is to continually cut operating costs, and crews are expensive because they have to be highly trained, highly proficient and highly skilled - you can't just take someone from the job centre and give them a day's induction course.
So if they can 'get away with' using one crew instead of two crews, they will.
This is why we need to stand up for ourselves. Unfortunately - certainly in the UK - the union and the company councils have clearly been nobbled. Strike action is very rarely taken and rarely even considered. EASA FTLs were just nodded in, and all our union does is talk about things. They never actually do anything. They just talk about fatigue, but never do anything about fatigue.
I mean; "controlled rest", i.e. taking a 20 minute nap sitting in your pilot seat, is a real thing !! That is a blatant admission that crews are fatigued - right there.
Can you imagine if a surgeon, in the middle of an operation; with the patient's chest wide open and tubes everywhere; said to his 'junior' doctor alongside him, "jeez, I am so tired, I cannot keep my eyes open any longer. I am going to take controlled rest", and he sits down with his eyes closed for 20 mins, while all the other doctors just stand around and wait; keeping an eye on the patient's pulse and oxygen levels etc. Utterly ludicrous.
EASA FTL - all the UK AOC ever wanted was a level playing field had they not switched to EASA FTL how many UK would be left?. Many of the UK AOC left in either Industrial agreements or FRM agreements when EASA FTL came in. You could argue the previous yearly block hour agreement VS had was a fatigue mitigation also.
One thing for sure where EASA FTL is completely different to CAP371 is that it's so much easier for crews to swap duties - under CAP371 particularly the (archaic) days off rules it was impossible to swap - now it seems to be the in thing. As you know when it comes to swaps or flying on days off for $$$ Fatigue goes out the window - Nb I'm only joking, sort of.
Yes. Sadly that is where so many pilots shot themselves in the foot. They cannot argue fatigue and lack of rest if: when Ops rings up and says they have a bit of a situation and would you be willing to fly tomorrow on your day off for £500 ? And they say yes I will do it.
We - (they) - really need to wok to rule to start with; no overtime etc., and if that doesn't make things easier then strike action must be considered - it is the only defence we have. Talking about it and fatigue monitoring etc. does not cut it.
We - (they) - really need to wok to rule to start with; no overtime etc., and if that doesn't make things easier then strike action must be considered - it is the only defence we have. Talking about it and fatigue monitoring etc. does not cut it.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real villains here are the CAA and BALPA. Maybe a Parliamentary inquiry into the role of the CAA is required. Has anyone ever heard if the CAA has ever prosecuted any airline for fatigue or FDP abuse?
Nope, it was idiots like Brian Simpson MEP, who didn’t actually know what he was talking about when sat on the relevant committees. His argument to me was he had a SME. She was an ex BASSA rep.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Over my career I've seen the number of UK AOC dwindle to all but a few from 'the good old days' when crews flew harder and there was no such thing as fatigue.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would be difficult to prosecute an airline over fatigue abuse as long as any AOC complies with the FTL. FDP abuse I once joined a very big airline and almost immediately was down at the CAA with the Directors and told sort it within 6 months or lose your AOC. The CAA have also gone after Crew for having two flying jobs.
Over my career I've seen the number of UK AOC dwindle to all but a few from 'the good old days' when crews flew harder and there was no such thing as fatigue.
Over my career I've seen the number of UK AOC dwindle to all but a few from 'the good old days' when crews flew harder and there was no such thing as fatigue.
Balpa and the CAA are two cherished (!) British aviation institutions that have not been fit for purpose for a very long time, if ever. One a well trodden route to the management structure and the other a time serving bunch of bureaucrats also looking to hop back into industry at a management level. Seen it all before. I am also ex Virgin and I can confirm that the endless time zone changes have a very debilitating affect on personal health. However, Safety is our biggest priority. Hilarious.
