Life expectancy among Pilots/cabin crew

[lelolo44]

I tried to find something about that subject here and elsewhere and somehow found different stories, opposite opinions and figures . I wonder if there is a recent survey concerning our « future » on this planet after all these years looking at the far horizon in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean or focused on the northern lights while cruising at FL360 and N64 09 7 W045 25 5 with a 500kts GS 😊.

[Less Hair]

There are still not too many studies about, it seems. There used to be the one big "very old" one by Aeroflot in the Soviet Union back then that seemed to show that pilots, while being selected for being exceptionally healthy and capable, are finally not living longer IIRC. They seem to end up with some higher share of heart problems, possibly high altitude radiation related or similar? I apologize for having forgotten most of it, no medical background myself, but hopefully this is enough to google more?

[Busdriver01]

I truly can't imagine that the almost constant exhaustion of being out of bed all night, 3am alarms, multiple sectors, max FDPs, high altitude, high noise environments is good for even the healthiest among us.

[blind pew]

I did some research in the mid 1980s and found something originating in the states then did some looking at BA death lists to try and stop my company from increasing retirement age from 55 to 58: it was purely for selfish reasons as it ended costing me another two years for command (20).
There are so many variables it’s virtually useless on an individual basis.
I had been given a week to live at 25 which was probably aerotoxic syndrome; had malaria twice; various infections from Africa; tinnitus since mid 1980s caused by a quack which supposedly should have left to Alzheimer’s by now; lost my license at 45 due to a combination of neurotoxins and a head injury so I took an enhancement pension from 55 to 65 as by then I would have out lived my two last male generations.
At 73 I’m still behaving in all senses as a 25 year old yob; whilst I’ve lost some mates, crash, brain tumour, stoke and heart attacks both associated with worrying about never having enough money most are enjoying life in their early 70s.
I did more than my fair share of North Atlantic and polar flights / one of our skippers had a radiation meter on short haul and a lot would fly several thousand feet below optimum cruise level.
My only suggestion is look at your company pension fund stats especially fleet stats if it’s for your retirement planning.

[lederhosen]

I remember a startling study some time ago about the large number of pilots who died within a couple of years after reaching retirement. The strong advice was to go part time and ease your way into it if I remember correctly.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by lederhosen

I remember a startling study some time ago about the large number of pilots who died within a couple of years after reaching retirement. The strong advice was to go part time and ease your way into it if I remember correctly.

My father (a coroner) said that was very common across the board. To make the point our school chemistry master died a week after retiring, and formed a case for him.

Current trends do have a notable impact on pension annuity rates. Some who instead of retiring at say 65, but carry on to 70, can be surprised that they get no retirement annuity benefit. That is because (simplifying) those who retire at 65 have an average expectancy of say 15 years, but those who hold on to 70 are typically the fitter lot and are also found to then have an average expectancy of 15 years from that later point.

[what next]

Originally Posted by lederhosen

I remember a startling study some time ago about the large number of pilots who died within a couple of years after reaching retirement.

The studies have always been in disagreement over this topic. As an example two links to studies (from 1992 and 1994) that find opposite results:
https://flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_jun92.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Airline_Pilots

[BRE]

As far as radiation goes, from researching the literature some 10 years ago, I got the impression that low dose radiation is probably a lot more harmless than the official LNT (linear no threshold) model says:
- The LNT model extrapolates from Hirosihma and Nagasaki data (sad as it may be, that is simply the largest body of data we have)
- The direct radiation dose overwhelmed cellular repair mechanisms.
- It was impossible to account for cancers stemming from ingestion and inhalation of alpha- and beta decaying particles (which are probably a lot worse than direct radiation).
- In regions with increased background radiation from rocks, there is no increase in cancer rates, and there may even be increased longetivity (look up radiation hormesis)
- Radon from rocks is a differnent story, cf. ingested or inhaled

As for aircrew, this means radiation expososure should not be a significant factor, it may even be beneficial. Healthy worker bias is surely a confounder. On the other hand, shift work, sleep depravation, stress will surely be harmful.

[lederhosen]

Excellent studies provided by what next, thank you for that. Both studies are of course more than 25 years old and many things have changed not least overall life expectancy and of course the pilot job itself.

It is self evident that things that reduce life expectancy such as shift work and circadian rhythm disruption can be expected to negatively effect almost all airline pilots. Those that make it to retirement at 65 are obviously in the healthy cohort category as they started in better health than the average and did not fall by the wayside.

The question for me is whether the job reduces your natural life expectancy or put another way how long you would have lived if you had not become a pilot. Continuing sleep disruption post retirement, reduced status and of course income could be negative factors. Good pension and lots of other interests might be positive ones. I hope to update you on my personal experience in thirty years!

[Herod]

The two-year figure is one I heard some years ago, but I can't remember the source. It also suggested the same two years for RAF officers retiring at 55

[tubby linton]

I remember a lot of colleagues dieing within a year or two of retirement at age of sixty but they were all people who were born around the second war period. A lot of their older contemporaries born in the 1930s are still with us. When I look at my own family those born in the two war periods of the twentieth century all die in their sixties but those either side of these periods all last into their nineties. I had a conversation with some of my fathers contemporaries and they all thought that flying commercially should stop at fifty five and one of their AME advised not flying after the age of fifty. These were pilots who has predominately not flown at very high altitude but had hand flown piston, turboprop, and early generation jet aircraft but never to the flying limits expected now.
A separate group are those born in the late fifties or early sixties who have completed military service. A number of them all have had premature deaths. Were they victims of Gulf War syndrome or something similar?

[Prober]

I don't know what to say!

I had military flying for 4 years, mostly active service, with a fairly high attrition rate – by which I mean being killed – followed by 40 years of mostly fairly high pressure short haul flying. When my licence expired, I continued in the sim (75/767) for a further 10 years. When I eventually found myself tending to nod off after 3 hours in the box, I hung up my headset. The best thing that happened to me was having to take a Dutch medical one year, nearly 30 years ago now. They picked up glaucoma. My eye surgeon, a very jolly fellow, said that I was lucky: not because it was caught in time but that the medication required had a certain side-effect. It stopped you worrying! That has seen me through for nearly nine decades now, with no further plans just yet! (Fingers crossed.)
Prober

[Bill Macgillivray]

I would hazard a guess that flying and old age are not connected (unless you are unlucky to have a fatal!). Coming to 85 and have been flying since 18 until about 12 years ago (Majority military). Count myself lucky and still appear to be fairly fit! Who knows?

Bill

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Herod

The two-year figure is one I heard some years ago, but I can't remember the source. It also suggested the same two years for RAF officers retiring at 55

There was a similar statistic floating around Boeing for a while - that many people who took early retirement quickly kicked the bucket. But when someone dug into the numbers (we're engineers, we do that sort of thing ) it seems that the culprit was people who took early retirement due to ill health. Not surprisingly people who leave early because of poor health often don't live much longer.
As I approached retirement, people retiring early because they'd saved and could financially afford to leave early became more common, plus Boeing started providing incentives to retire early to get highly paid senior engineers off the payroll.
As a result, most people I know and worked with retired early (including me). And those that stayed on to 65 or beyond generally could afford to retire but didn't have much of a life outside Boeing. So far I know of no early deaths among friends who retired before 65.

[Wally777]

Not often I recommend a book but I picked this up a few years ago. It was the second book I read by Daniel Levitin. This one

The Changing Mind: A Neuroscientist's Guide to Ageing Well

I bought thinking of my mum then 88 years old, who lives with my wife and I. It really has some well researched interesting information, some of which I had wish I had known when I was younger.
When I had my last medical pre retirement my doctor stated that not many 64 year olds still have both their parents. My dad now 91+ managed a 49 years career in aviation from apprentice engineer, retiring as a B707 training Captain aged 54 and finally retiring as director of Air Accident Investigation at the age of 67. (Dad had health issues for his pilots medical and had a replacement valve in his heart (aged 59) believed possibly damage caused by rheumatic fever as a kid, hence his career change at 54. The operation worked well for him).
I'm 66 now and achieved 48 years of flying , the last 33 years in long haul. My entire hospital time in those 66 years is less than 24 hours and 2 visits were for broken bones. Hopefully here a few years longer as keeping well and active with home life and some volunteer work.
It doesn't stop one looking back as I settle into my new life of retirement of the colleagues I have lost over the years. One wonderful pilot who helped me when I started out being only being 42, but like others he had underlying health issues he was being treated for.
So does our lifestyle in aviation make a difference to life expectancy? I would like to hope not as some of the older guys I flew with are still very much active, a few also in their 90's now.
Possibly just life's lottery of genetics and lifestyle. Just last night I watched a program called Ambulance following 12 hour shifts, dealing with emergencies in London. These people do this day in and out, day shifts, night shifts working who knows 21-25 days a month. Total respect as I look back at a career comparison and how much I enjoyed my flying.

[lederhosen]

It would be interesting to know if anyone has done more recent research on the health impact of the airline pilot lifestyle. It is a bit early to assess the impact of the middle east carriers‘ long haul schedules or the questionable terms and conditions of some low cost airlines.

I am reminded of one particular group of ex military fast jet pilots in my company. They all flew till 65 and were dead well within ten years. Probably not a big enough group to be statistically relevant as there were only four or five. But these guys obviously started fit and died younger than you would expect (prior to covid incidentally).

[Superpilot]

The industry isn't going to do this for us. We need to find another way of gathering interest from the scientific/medical community. But certainly yes, I personally know 3 guys who flew till 65 and who were dead before their 70s. All 3 were average to skinny build, 1 was a smoker. I know a couple more. They seem to be doing OK. I have a suspicion the analysis will show something like a 25-50% increased chance of death before 75 after a 30-40 year flying career. As a comparison, all 4 of my (non-flying) grampies survived passed 85. 2 of my great grampies hit 90. So anecdotally at least, my suspicions are confirmed

[Gordomac]

The correct answer is;- 96- .Well, that is according to my Financial Services Adviser. His investment advice for my Self Invest Private Pension was based on that ( well, ok, a few other silly things).76 now and poorly performing SIPP. Rest of me performing like I was 40. Mental attitude of a 12 year old. Gorra find a way of enhancing the SIPP. Lid;s said they would take me on.

[brakedwell]

Gordon, I have just watched the BBC TV series about the QE 2 aircraft carrier's first long haul journey to Japan. They stopped in Cyprus outbound and picked up a massive dosage of Covid whilst enjoying a break in Limassol. The ship has now reached Japan and the crew are not allowed to go ashore, so be careful if you go to Limassol my friend!

[blind pew]

Of my mates who didn’t retire normally ..first at 22 accident, second 40s cancer, third obese heavy drinker cancer late 40s, 4th brain tumour 40s, 5th loss of license neurological condition died of cancer late 50s turned out non diagnosed lymes disease, two died just before and after retirement..both tight arses who worried about not having a fortune..stroke and heart attack.
To note two had leukaemia..one who had retired on what is now 200 grand was fortunate to have holiday insurance and was in Canada who used an experimental treatment which cost 250 grand and is still trying to spend his pension ten years later, the other has had three lots of chemo over the last decade which is working. Another had heart problem around 50 which ended up with him working on the sim.
Myself I was forced into invalidity pension although I didn’t want it..not helped by two two faced fleet pilots one of those a Brit..we happened to have 200 pilots too many but there was a whole group of both FOs and Captains ex DC10 who had neurological problems which probably stemmed from Larium which had been banned in Germany a few years before. There is an irish class action by the peace keepers from similar symptoms. When the problem first hit I looked at various other opportunities but settled for as much unpaid leave as possible but 4 years later my career was finished. It took 7 years before I was confident enough to fly passengers in gliders. My problem was that I wasn’t one of the ego guys who had to fly the 747 and opted for the routes..VC10 and DC10 including the long Air Afrique wet lease. (The 747 did east coast). I’ve had the typical affects of neurotoxins now for nearly 40 years.gut, eyesight and memory but I’m still up for flying a couple of times a week, weather permitting, don’t need blue pills and except for 20 years of skin cancer (on my RHS..my normal window seat) I’m still enjoying and able.
I chatted to a FR pilot at MRS a decade ago who was a jumper…what a brilliant roster and good money..whilst not the life I had it would have been better health wise (I asked about room parties Naha not for me but those down the back **** like bunnies).
Have fun and don’t worry about life expectancy..as Billy Connolly said more or less..by living a careful abstemious life you might get another ten years but those years are those where you are p#sing and sh#ting yourself.​​​​​.