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20+ hours delay on QF flagship flight

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20+ hours delay on QF flagship flight

Old 28th Oct 2022, 11:04
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Fly3; Can you explain those rules please? I only flew short/medium haul, with no augmented crew. Therefore of course, we only had one duty period, governed by start-time, and captain's discretion at the end.
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Old 28th Oct 2022, 12:42
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1 hr sign on, 17:30 flight time, 30 min sign off. That’s 19hrs duty already. Doesn’t leave much of a window for delays?
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Old 28th Oct 2022, 20:04
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Does that mean 2x787's flew out the next day PER-LHR? The delayed one and the scheduled one? Were none of the pax re-routed?
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Old 28th Oct 2022, 21:12
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Originally Posted by smith
Does that mean 2x787's flew out the next day PER-LHR? The delayed one and the scheduled one? Were none of the pax re-routed?
No, no and no.
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Old 28th Oct 2022, 21:41
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Lots of explanations being put out with regards to how ULH works but what I want to know is,

Why are they doing ULH from an out station? Very small pool of spare parts and crew. Getting more spare parts and crew is 6+ hours minimum. I am surprised it does not turn to muck more often.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 04:17
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When I flew ULR routes, defined as any flight over 16 hours flight time, each city pair had to be authorised individually. They worked out two departure windows based on circadian rhymes in order to ensure that arrival time did not coincide with a double low. There would normally be two windows in each 24 hour period. Flight duty time is not fixed but was defined as projected flight-time plus three hours with no captains discretion. All flights were to be double crewed and crew rest had to include at least two rest periods each, of which one must be at least four hours. One crew was designated as "command crew" and the other relief crew. The command crew would do the take off and landing with at least one of the relief crew on the jump seat as an extra pair of eyes to monitor the operation. Although we thought the rest period rules very strange to begin with they proved to be infinitely superior to the 50/50 we had been used to on normal long-haul flights.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 06:33
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Originally Posted by Climb150
Lots of explanations being put out with regards to how ULH works but what I want to know is,

Why are they doing ULH from an out station? Very small pool of spare parts and crew. Getting more spare parts and crew is 6+ hours minimum. I am surprised it does not turn to muck more often.
Because the 787 can't make LHR-SYD non-stop. Qantas wants bragging rights for flying LHR-Oz non-stop and Sydney is not do-able in one hop at the moment.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 06:35
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
No, no and no.
Dick, dick and dick.

Lot of crew out of position. too many pax for combined single flight.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 08:46
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Originally Posted by Climb150
Lots of explanations being put out with regards to how ULH works but what I want to know is,

Why are they doing ULH from an out station? Very small pool of spare parts and crew. Getting more spare parts and crew is 6+ hours minimum. I am surprised it does not turn to muck more often.
Many airlines would be a bit poorly placed if they couldn't do ULH anywhere other than from base..

The problems you list (crew/spares) apply, give or take, pretty much across all Long Haul Ops in general, augmented crew or not, regardless of the Ultra bit.

Last time I worked when away from base (which of course was the case for about 50% ish of departures) we didn't have spare crew at the slip hotel, formally on stand-by legally rested, ready to spring into action.

If there was a snag and a fix wasn't possible in time available it was everybody off, crew back to the hotel and then minimum rest, potentially 12 hours plus before (hopefully) trying again....and has been mentioned upthread often other factors would kick in (slots, night jet bans) that meant in reality a 24 ish hour delay would be in order.

The scale of the QF delay might be down to the "UU" factor but on the surface it appears to be a fairly standard Long Haul delay, if there is such a thing.

Last edited by wiggy; 29th Oct 2022 at 09:53.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 12:09
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP
One of the FOs wakes up with a blocked nose, captain drops his bag getting off the crew bus and breaks his spare set of glasses. Sounds ridiculous but thatís enough to cancel the flight. One flight a day from an outstation and itís curtains for the plan.
I started carrying a third pair of glasses with me after realizing the consequences of having a pair lost/stolen/broken, etc.

It can take a long time to get a new set made.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 15:10
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
I started carrying a third pair of glasses with me after realizing the consequences of having a pair lost/stolen/broken, etc.

It can take a long time to get a new set made.
Iíve always wondered what happens. Commercially it makes sense to throw the pilot into a taxi, straight to the nearest opticians and throw £1000 at them to skip the queue and bypass any manufacturing delays for the glasses.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 16:36
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The most dreaded words…”A Hydraulic System Issue”, Never, ever a quick fix.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 18:12
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
I started carrying a third pair of glasses with me after realizing the consequences of having a pair lost/stolen/broken, etc.

It can take a long time to get a new set made.
I am required to have 2 sets of reading glasses (age 😒🤷‍♂️), but can get by with cheap cheaters. Normally carry 4 pairs with me.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 20:46
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Thanks Fly3.
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Old 30th Oct 2022, 09:51
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I was delayed 20 hours on a B.747 flight out of Beijing. There the issue was an engine which went wrong and British Airways flew a spare in from Hong Kong. Being Rolls Royce powered there wasn't much else they could do but the organisation was chaotic.
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Old 30th Oct 2022, 11:08
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo
Getting a part from Seattle from what I have seen at my employer recently had been nothing but a nightmare, plan 1-2 months.
Presumably another Boeing approach to minimise stock of spares values on the Balance Sheet, and drive their share price up.

Did nobody there notice that what killed the Sukhoi Superjet more than anything else was abysmal spares support ?
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Old 30th Oct 2022, 18:35
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I was once delayed ex Brisbane for 18 hours as although the spare part could be sourced( borrowed ) from QF easily there was no licenced engineer to swop it out ... Extra night in OZ and Compo $$...and we were only going to NZ 😐
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Old 31st Oct 2022, 00:05
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Originally Posted by smith
Does that mean 2x787's flew out the next day PER-LHR? The delayed one and the scheduled one? Were none of the pax re-routed?
Ö.but there were two 787s at LHR the following day and they departed for Perth about three hours apart. The flight that was delayed left at 08:30 and had its flight number changed slightly to distinguish it from the later on-time flight. As the OP itís been interesting - thanks to an enlightened mod - weíve probably done it to death but my point was - if you are going to have a 17 hour ULH flight that turns into a 37 hour journey (40 hours + door to door) youíre going to have to get sharper with contingency planning; and from the replies it looks like spares inventory and crewing need to be looked at too. Itís been interesting- thanks everyone.
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Old 31st Oct 2022, 06:50
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you’re going to have to get sharper with contingency planning; and from the replies it looks like spares inventory and crewing need to be looked at too
Whatever you want to do to ameliorate delays is going to cost, are you ready for the impost? How about each flight has another fly along in formation empty in case the one with the pax breaks.
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Old 31st Oct 2022, 10:32
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It's all very well suggesting ULH should not operate from somewhere like Perth but even when Sydney/London starts Sydeney might well be the Qantas home base but Heathrow is an outstation. The likelihood is that any ULH will use an outstation.
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