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BA lost its glitter now set to lose pilots?

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BA lost its glitter now set to lose pilots?

Old 18th Jan 2001, 18:35
  #1 (permalink)  
kippa
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Red face BA lost its glitter now set to lose pilots?

Seems that BA's idea of market rate being less than market rate is now causing some of the not so junior F/O's to look elsewhere.

Anyone know if this is true?
 
Old 18th Jan 2001, 19:28
  #2 (permalink)  
ManaAdaSystem
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I`ve learnt one thing since i started flying a number of years ago. Jobs come and go, airlines come and go. What looks like the worlds best job offer today, means you`ll be writing job applications (again) tomorrow.
I work for one of the majors (not BA). There is no way i`m leaving my seat for some shiny goldplated aircraft out there in the distance. I just treasure waking up in the morning, knowing my job is still there.
It may not be the best airline in the world, but its not far from it.

Not exactly an answer to your question, kippa, but it seems everyone is having a go at the majors these days. I just felt like telling you all that i am not ashamed of working for one, as a matter of fact i`m quite proud. Throwing a few my way is not going to change that.
 
Old 18th Jan 2001, 23:19
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Affangu
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Cool

Edited due the phone throwing me offline
(See below)

[This message has been edited by Affangu (edited 18 January 2001).]
 
Old 18th Jan 2001, 23:26
  #4 (permalink)  
Affangu
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Manadasystem,
It's that kind of complacent attitude that makes me happy to be working for a sleeves rolled up bare knuckle fighting outfit that needs enthusiasm throughout the ranks to survive. None of this "we can lose 85M/quarter and still survive" rubbish.

And before any Nigel says "keep sending the c.v." I honestly haven't updated the thing since I got my job, and if everything did go pear shaped tomorrow, I wouldn't be applying to BA. I'd rather be somewhere I can make a difference.

Stick your majors. Besides, I don't want the pay cut.
 
Old 18th Jan 2001, 23:48
  #5 (permalink)  
javelin
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I may be wrong, but I think Manadasystem is simply saying he is happy where he is - or she! I am happy where I am, I can't say it is the best, but it sure isn't the worst and subject to dire circumstances, i feel that my company will still be here in 20 years time. Compromise sometimes works, the usual reason that the grass is greener over the fence is that the farmer is throwing more sshit on it !
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 03:02
  #6 (permalink)  
beaver eager
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I believe I've posted this or similar on another thread somewhere, but I think kippa's onto something.

I reckon the Nigels must be ready for a punch-up with their management by now. Their pay and conditions and status have been slowly eroded over the past years of the recession (The Ayling Years).

Now that the likes of Eazy and Ryan have woken up to the fact that there is going to be a Pilot shortage soon, it has become obvious that the Nigels are actually subsidising the excesses of the other departments within BA.

Just think about the wages that the aforementioned low cost carriers are paying for short haul pilots compared to their seat prices. Now compare that with BA's seat prices.

It kind of spoils any argument BA management could put forward about Flight Crew costs being too high and the need for further belt tightening.

I reckon that if Rod Eddington thinks he's going to get away with another 'hatchet job' he's got another thing coming!
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 03:12
  #7 (permalink)  
strobes_on
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Thumbs down

Welcome to the fantastic world of 'rule by Rod'.

His slash and burn treatment is second to none.
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 03:25
  #8 (permalink)  
ManaAdaSystem
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Affangu,

Complacent attitude??
I see nothing wrong with working for a well run company making a healthy profit, together with motivated and professional collegues. A company offering jobsecurity, good workingconditions and a nice paycheck. Not to mention having a well trained ground organisation ready if i need it.
Major=complacent attitude? Who ever gave you that idea? How can you comment if you haven`t worked for one?
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 07:50
  #9 (permalink)  
Boeing Belly
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Has Mr Ed put out the old staff opinion survey yet? Look out when he does. Shortly after you're f***ed!
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 16:47
  #10 (permalink)  
The Zombie
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Exclamation

Time to get those tin helmets on again and get down into the shelters, I think.
 
Old 19th Jan 2001, 18:34
  #11 (permalink)  
ETOPS
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Talking

I have got in front of me the latest pay scales for American Airlines. It is public data as it appeared today in "Aviation Daily". Boeing 757 Captains earn upto $14631 per month and 777 Skippers over $17000 per month. There is an additional $6/hr (overide) for international flights and an upcoming 2.5% increase from 31/8/01.
To put this in perspective I am a BA 75/76 Captain and these figures are over double my earnings. The co-pilot/flight engineer figures are similarly way above BA rates.

If you want to earn big bucks you know where to go!!
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 01:26
  #12 (permalink)  
kippa
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Yeh ETOPS, But you are market rate.
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 01:46
  #13 (permalink)  
The Zombie
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Wink

Kippa,
why don't you say what you mean and not mince your words!

Which market anyway was that rate?
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 01:59
  #14 (permalink)  
kippa
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The Zombie, good point, looks like all pilots in UK are governed by Great Britian plc. market rates. Can you think of any other international industries within the UK that are governed by similiar parochial wage structures?
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 04:51
  #15 (permalink)  
Ignition Override
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A unified pilot group (yes, union membership with strong solidarity: there is no susbstitute at the negotiating table-without one, you can negotiate nothing) with serious representation is the only way to have industry-level salaries when working for US airlines.

Other than very good salaries in previous years at pre-union FEDEX (pilots earned industry-level by working extra on scheduled days off), who can name any other non-union pilot group in the US whose pilots received salaries equal to the majors? Just curious.
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 04:54
  #16 (permalink)  
Carnage Matey!
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Unhappy

Haven't heard of many young FOs looking to leave because they're in a good position to move up the seniority list quickly. Have heard lots of grumbling from many of the older junior FOs and Captains who need to make some decent wedge before they're retired and aren't going to get it in BA.
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 06:33
  #17 (permalink)  
exeng
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Carnage Matey,

Actually there is a lot of grumbling going on. I think that fairly soon it will translate into much more than just grumbling.


Regards
Exeng
 
Old 20th Jan 2001, 17:49
  #18 (permalink)  
Hot Wings
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I've heard of some people looking to go to Emirates and also of some DEPs going back to the LHS at their old airlines.

There is trouble brewing, especially as more crew at BA are becoming aware of how poor our pay is (I blame the internet!).

The status of flight crew at BA has been so severely eroded, that many cabin crew take home more per month than FOs. Also, CSDs received a bigger pay rise than flight crew (and better staff travel than FOs/FEs).



[This message has been edited by Hot Wings (edited 20 January 2001).]
 
Old 13th May 2001, 23:51
  #19 (permalink)  
Magnus Picus
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Red face

Top Pay point for a CSD is around 35000

F/O's reach this after 4 years.

Both recieve same meal allowances (Mostly spent downroute)

F/O's recieve Flying Hourly rate which makes them 500 gross per month S/H and up to 2000 gross per month L/H.

Just thought I'd give the figures for this oft' said quote.

Make your own minds up.



------------------
Magnus
 
Old 14th May 2001, 00:16
  #20 (permalink)  
dodgy
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Magnus mate.
Why are we comparing the pay rate of FO to CSD?
I know I'm going to get shot down with what I say but intend no snob status s@ite: its a different job. OK, same company, but different roles with some obvious overlap. Doesn't mean we should be linked in pay terms, just like we have different unions.

BA will compare pilots to CSD when it so suits, to play one off against the other. Taken from the CSD point of view, that probably doesn't help them either. We are now inextricably linked in the eyes of the company--to raise pilot pay they will have to do it through FHR (flying hour rate) to make the basic salary increment look weeny for the eyes of the cabin crew unions. Thus, cc do not get to argue for large salary increase.
 

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