Flight Deck Officers Third Most Dangerous Profession
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From: A Galaxy Far Far Away...
Flight Deck Officers Third Most Dangerous Profession
A new lancet study has found that Flight Deck Officers have the UK's third most dangerous profession.
Sounds like a good excuse for a pay rise.
Sounds like a good excuse for a pay rise.
Last edited by Frain Buck; 16th August 2002 at 04:36.
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Got to get in here quickly before 411 starts telling us stories about how he held off a dozen terrorists single handed but did not expect even an extra day on his vacation. Just part of the job!
Certainly we have a great deal more responsibility, risk and stress than we had a year ago - and we are still being told that we are the problem. because we are overpaid etc. etc.
Perhaps an international withdrawal of service for a week is needed to get peoples attention.
Certainly we have a great deal more responsibility, risk and stress than we had a year ago - and we are still being told that we are the problem. because we are overpaid etc. etc.
Perhaps an international withdrawal of service for a week is needed to get peoples attention.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,896
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
>>Perhaps an international withdrawal of service for a week is needed to get peoples attention.<<
Ah, yes, the mythical SOS (Suspension of Service) that the ALPA crowd has ranted about for so many years...
I won't hold my breath on this one.
Ah, yes, the mythical SOS (Suspension of Service) that the ALPA crowd has ranted about for so many years...
I won't hold my breath on this one.
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I will not be holding my breath either.
The predictable outcome of the increase in job pressures, reduced rewards and generally instability of our profession will be a shortage of pilot job applicants. This will not be immediately apparent but eventually, as aviation recovers, laid off pilots will return to work, the senior people will retire and, what do you know! we will have talk of another pilot shortage. When this shortage becomes apparent to the aviation industry we will go through the same old predictable boring cycle of boom and bust again.
The unknown factor in the "pilot shortage" scenario is exactly where people will say the job is not worth the hassle. It has always been accepted that you put up with the hassle because, by doing so, you earned your position on the seniority list and a fairly predictable future. Now seniority and a career are not predictable. Add to this the prospect of losing your retirement in a bankruptcy or even an early death and the job fails to be as attractive as it was!
Then you will see the pay increases our first poster mentioned, NOT because of the job we do but because of SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
The predictable outcome of the increase in job pressures, reduced rewards and generally instability of our profession will be a shortage of pilot job applicants. This will not be immediately apparent but eventually, as aviation recovers, laid off pilots will return to work, the senior people will retire and, what do you know! we will have talk of another pilot shortage. When this shortage becomes apparent to the aviation industry we will go through the same old predictable boring cycle of boom and bust again.
The unknown factor in the "pilot shortage" scenario is exactly where people will say the job is not worth the hassle. It has always been accepted that you put up with the hassle because, by doing so, you earned your position on the seniority list and a fairly predictable future. Now seniority and a career are not predictable. Add to this the prospect of losing your retirement in a bankruptcy or even an early death and the job fails to be as attractive as it was!
Then you will see the pay increases our first poster mentioned, NOT because of the job we do but because of SUPPLY AND DEMAND.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Location, Location
Trawler men (apologies to any trawler women) (1st), merchant navy deck hands (2nd). You can read the full article at www.thelancet.com (free registration required).
Having worked for many years in life assurance, I was a bit surprised - flight crew on passenger carrying flights are not usually charged extra (military flight crew usually are). One of the most risky jobs (not mentioned in the article) is publican!
It's not really clear whether the article considers all causes of death or only accidental deaths at work (as reported to HSE). If the latter, I can't believe the figures - surely more scaffolders are killed at work than flight crew?
Having worked for many years in life assurance, I was a bit surprised - flight crew on passenger carrying flights are not usually charged extra (military flight crew usually are). One of the most risky jobs (not mentioned in the article) is publican!
It's not really clear whether the article considers all causes of death or only accidental deaths at work (as reported to HSE). If the latter, I can't believe the figures - surely more scaffolders are killed at work than flight crew?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 329
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From: London, UK
Journalists normally score highly on the "most stressful" job table. And pretty highly on the "most dangerous" if they happen to be covering the more dodgy places of the world.
Personally I'm surprised that miners seem to be out of the picture.
Personally I'm surprised that miners seem to be out of the picture.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 6
From: Canada
I too read the article but the #3 ranking for pilots pertains only to the incident of death caused by an accident vs injury. This seems correct as sudden stops by aircraft are of course more violent than those of a boat/bus etc. You will note when the stats are broken down in fatal accidents per 100,000 worker years, pilots/aircrew do not appear on the chart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Workers who died from accidents at work Fatal accident rate per 100 000 worker-years (95% CI)
Fishermen* 454 103·1 (87·5-118·7)
Merchant seafarers* 507 51·6 (38·7-64·5)
Energy and water supply 700 10·0 (6·7-13·9)
industries†‡
Agriculture, forestry, and 737 8·8 (8·2-9·5)
fishing†§
Construction 2404 8·4 (7·6-10·3)
Manufacturing 2264 2·2 (1·9-2·5)
Service industries† 1619 0·7 (0·6-0·7)
All workers¶ 9543 2·0 (1·7-2·2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Workers who died from accidents at work Fatal accident rate per 100 000 worker-years (95% CI)
Fishermen* 454 103·1 (87·5-118·7)
Merchant seafarers* 507 51·6 (38·7-64·5)
Energy and water supply 700 10·0 (6·7-13·9)
industries†‡
Agriculture, forestry, and 737 8·8 (8·2-9·5)
fishing†§
Construction 2404 8·4 (7·6-10·3)
Manufacturing 2264 2·2 (1·9-2·5)
Service industries† 1619 0·7 (0·6-0·7)
All workers¶ 9543 2·0 (1·7-2·2)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 97
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From: Out West
Farming has traditionally been a high risk occupation as well for much the same reasons as the fishing industry.
Boing has hit the nail on the head regarding our profession, same old cycle of boom and bust with the established carrier unions doing nothing for their lot in life but demand more money when the cycle is high and the companies reducing benefits when the cycle is low.
Unfortunately it’s become an adversarial system with little in terms of stability and lifestyle for all concerned (company and employees). As long as both sides base the end game on "the dollar goes in my pocket" rather than building a solid company based on customers (safety & security), employee well-being and company profitability we will continue this cycle of boom and bust.
The way things are shaping up in the U.S., I think it may be safe to say that the most dangerous job to be in is a bean counter / CEO (manipulator?).
I know I've about had my fill of it and at mid-career (airline) I am ready to bow out and get on with a real life...
Boing has hit the nail on the head regarding our profession, same old cycle of boom and bust with the established carrier unions doing nothing for their lot in life but demand more money when the cycle is high and the companies reducing benefits when the cycle is low.
Unfortunately it’s become an adversarial system with little in terms of stability and lifestyle for all concerned (company and employees). As long as both sides base the end game on "the dollar goes in my pocket" rather than building a solid company based on customers (safety & security), employee well-being and company profitability we will continue this cycle of boom and bust.
The way things are shaping up in the U.S., I think it may be safe to say that the most dangerous job to be in is a bean counter / CEO (manipulator?).
I know I've about had my fill of it and at mid-career (airline) I am ready to bow out and get on with a real life...
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 208
From: Toronto
Looks like all Flight Crew to me
Cockpit crew includes fire-bombing, night freight in piston twins etc. as well as the front office in first tier airlines.
Your risk varies considerably with the kind of flying you do.
But the pay rates seem to vary inversely with risk.
Your risk varies considerably with the kind of flying you do.
But the pay rates seem to vary inversely with risk.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19
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From: Canada
Perhaps the only way to stop the Airline bosses is a more radical approach by the unions. The first thing they should do is get rid of seniority lists.
It sounds crazy but:
Command will still be on "seniority" - ie experience.
I don't know of any other profession in the world where someone with 20 years experience can't freely move to another company and continue - pilots who leave one company for another become "the teaboy" again.
Next time your union leaders are negociating with management - suggest scrapping the seniority list, I'll bet they would hate the idea - because it protects management far more than it protects the pilots. Once you'r in - and been there a couple of years - moving is not so easy. But if all the unions did it together - that would be benificial to all pilots.
Just my 10 cents worth!
It sounds crazy but:
Command will still be on "seniority" - ie experience.
I don't know of any other profession in the world where someone with 20 years experience can't freely move to another company and continue - pilots who leave one company for another become "the teaboy" again.
Next time your union leaders are negociating with management - suggest scrapping the seniority list, I'll bet they would hate the idea - because it protects management far more than it protects the pilots. Once you'r in - and been there a couple of years - moving is not so easy. But if all the unions did it together - that would be benificial to all pilots.
Just my 10 cents worth!
