The BAA, scissors and nail clippers
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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The BAA, scissors and nail clippers
Heard on the BBC news tonight (although as yet no mention on the website) that the BAA are recommending a relaxation of the rules which require their security staff to remove personal grooming items from passengers. Apparently they have a haul of over 6 million such items now.
They reason that any hi-jacker would face stiff opposition from other passengers and that the confiscation of these items makes no great difference to security.
Personally, I am inclined to agree with them.
They reason that any hi-jacker would face stiff opposition from other passengers and that the confiscation of these items makes no great difference to security.
Personally, I am inclined to agree with them.
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In common, I would imagine, with most of my colleagues, I carry an 'emergency' kit in my Flight Bag for unscheduled nightstops etc - such things as razor, toothbrush, bottle opener etc. Included in this was a 'giveaway' from a car manufacturer containing stapler, sellotape, and one or two other bits, including a pair of [blunt] plastic backed scissors.
These scissors (and I must admit I had forgotten they were there) have been through several X-ray machines at several UK and European airports.
Recently I was required to position from LGW to a european airport to start a service from there, and I had to pass through the passenger channel, in uniform.
The scissors were spotted, but despite me pointing out that they had been X-rayed hundreds of times, the jobsworth confiscated them, because, although I might look like a pilot, I was a passenger and therefore the scissors would not be allowed.
It's not the loss of the scissors that upsets me - as I said I had forgotten they were there, but the attitude of the jobsworth.
These scissors (and I must admit I had forgotten they were there) have been through several X-ray machines at several UK and European airports.
Recently I was required to position from LGW to a european airport to start a service from there, and I had to pass through the passenger channel, in uniform.
The scissors were spotted, but despite me pointing out that they had been X-rayed hundreds of times, the jobsworth confiscated them, because, although I might look like a pilot, I was a passenger and therefore the scissors would not be allowed.
It's not the loss of the scissors that upsets me - as I said I had forgotten they were there, but the attitude of the jobsworth.
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Go to Zurich Airport and in duty free you can buy full size swiss army knives...unless you are travelling to USA, UK and a few other countries I cant remember...the knives are sold and handed over in standard unsealed duty free bags...what a farce this whole situation is when one end of the journey allows one thing and the other end does not or vice versa!
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Most pilots (and passengers come to that) carry a good-quality ballpoint pen with a metal barrel which could easily be used to stab somebody. For the most part this whole ludicrous action by the BAA, FAA et al is just window dressing to give the impression of resolute action when in fact nothing has changed.
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"Janes" expert condemn ridiculous security
From Saturday's Daily Teleraph.
Couldn't agree more
Chris Yates, aviation security editor of Jane's Transport magazine, said: "The events of September 11 have given rise to some fairly ridiculous new security measures being foisted upon the travelling public.
"Confiscation of innocuous items such as tweezers, nail files and other items normally carried by passengers does little, if anything, to improve the security on flights."
Mr Yates argued that such measures were "cosmetic" and "designed to reassure the travelling public that everything that can be done to improve security is being done". Meanwhile, many discrepancies still exist. Metal knives, for example, have been banned from cutlery sets on board aircraft, while metal forks have not.
Mr Yates said he would prefer resources to be directed towards improved information-sharing between the intelligence community, law enforcement and aviation security personnel, and better screening for offensive weapons and explosives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...ixtrvhome.html
Couldn't agree more
Chris Yates, aviation security editor of Jane's Transport magazine, said: "The events of September 11 have given rise to some fairly ridiculous new security measures being foisted upon the travelling public.
"Confiscation of innocuous items such as tweezers, nail files and other items normally carried by passengers does little, if anything, to improve the security on flights."
Mr Yates argued that such measures were "cosmetic" and "designed to reassure the travelling public that everything that can be done to improve security is being done". Meanwhile, many discrepancies still exist. Metal knives, for example, have been banned from cutlery sets on board aircraft, while metal forks have not.
Mr Yates said he would prefer resources to be directed towards improved information-sharing between the intelligence community, law enforcement and aviation security personnel, and better screening for offensive weapons and explosives.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...ixtrvhome.html
Join Date: Dec 1999
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On "my" airline, we have 300+ punters in steerage each with two 10" long chopsticks that can be sharpened with a pencil sharper and turned into lethal weapons in a minute!
This whole post-9/11 feeding frenzy that the $6.50/hour mental midgets have embarked must end NOW.
I deliberately try and slow the whole inspection process down (especially in Canadian airports, where it's completely out of control) by slowly and deliberately unpacking things, asking the inspection orifice (I mean "officer") if he/she would like to see more functions, taste my toothpaste, try the mouthwash, see the batteries, etc., etc. You can see the frustration building as you tie them up with trivia. Don't you get upset, frustrated and exasperated...take it to them.
Works for me.
This whole post-9/11 feeding frenzy that the $6.50/hour mental midgets have embarked must end NOW.
I deliberately try and slow the whole inspection process down (especially in Canadian airports, where it's completely out of control) by slowly and deliberately unpacking things, asking the inspection orifice (I mean "officer") if he/she would like to see more functions, taste my toothpaste, try the mouthwash, see the batteries, etc., etc. You can see the frustration building as you tie them up with trivia. Don't you get upset, frustrated and exasperated...take it to them.
Works for me.
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Its rich isn't it. They've OK'd some pilots to have guns, but I can't carry my Leatherman tool in case its dangerous!
What kind of mentality is a work here, I was under the impression that we were the 'good' guys
What kind of mentality is a work here, I was under the impression that we were the 'good' guys
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The problem is not the security screeners, it is their controllers at the top and their motive is political not practical.
We have heard it all before but non -one makes a logical decision in the US because they are afraid to be seen as soft on security. We all know the crash-axe story. In our company we are searched at the terminal entrance then we go to operations which is fully equipped with office equipment including several pairs of scissors with 4 inch blades. That is only part of it.
I once thought that the over-reaction to security would calm down after the situation had been stabilised. Instead it seems to have created a life of its own.
We have heard it all before but non -one makes a logical decision in the US because they are afraid to be seen as soft on security. We all know the crash-axe story. In our company we are searched at the terminal entrance then we go to operations which is fully equipped with office equipment including several pairs of scissors with 4 inch blades. That is only part of it.
I once thought that the over-reaction to security would calm down after the situation had been stabilised. Instead it seems to have created a life of its own.
Paxing All Over The World
Other 'weapons' that I am allowed to take on board? My PC. Now mine is a small unit and weighs only 1kg but what about the big Dell and Compaq units that weight 3.5 kg? Swing that at someone's face/back of their head and they would probably notice!!
Also, a bunch of keys (door + car) very nasty. Many others have already mentioned that I can buy a 1 litre bottle of spirits on board, once again, if I swing that at someone's head they will realise it.
Also, a bunch of keys (door + car) very nasty. Many others have already mentioned that I can buy a 1 litre bottle of spirits on board, once again, if I swing that at someone's head they will realise it.
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I have personally been on the receiving end of the contradictive way in which these security measures have been dealt.
Yep, it's a pain in the behind I guess.
Recently I had the pleasure of putting my elderly grandparents on an Australian domestic flight.
I took some initiative before we left for the airport, and checked through all their carry-on luggage. I (rightlfully) suspected they might not be very current on matters relating to aviation safety.
So, all contraband safely stowed in the checked-in bags, and we're off through security.
My grnadfather gets pulled up for the small army knife he has attached to his keys, which were in his pocket.
This causes major dramas, confused grandparents, and me hauling it to the nearest post box to mail the offending 'knife' back to my home address.
I go back through security, and we get my grandparents safley on their flight.
As I'm walking out of the terminal, I pull my keys out of my handbag.
And wouldn't you know it, I almost fell over at the irony....The same bag that I'd gone, not once, but twice through security, contained a set of keys (mine) which have on them, a small army knife
On the other hand, I'd be the first person to call blue murder if someone got past security with a weapon and caused an incident on a flight.
Regards
GoGirl
Yep, it's a pain in the behind I guess.
Recently I had the pleasure of putting my elderly grandparents on an Australian domestic flight.
I took some initiative before we left for the airport, and checked through all their carry-on luggage. I (rightlfully) suspected they might not be very current on matters relating to aviation safety.
So, all contraband safely stowed in the checked-in bags, and we're off through security.
My grnadfather gets pulled up for the small army knife he has attached to his keys, which were in his pocket.
This causes major dramas, confused grandparents, and me hauling it to the nearest post box to mail the offending 'knife' back to my home address.
I go back through security, and we get my grandparents safley on their flight.
As I'm walking out of the terminal, I pull my keys out of my handbag.
And wouldn't you know it, I almost fell over at the irony....The same bag that I'd gone, not once, but twice through security, contained a set of keys (mine) which have on them, a small army knife
On the other hand, I'd be the first person to call blue murder if someone got past security with a weapon and caused an incident on a flight.
Regards
GoGirl
Flew back yesterday from Capetown to Europe . We checked in and my son had bought a carved wooden walking stick . No problem with hand baggage , idem ditto at security check. Upon boarding he was stopped at the gate and the stick was taken off him and tagged for the hold . Naturally he was worried about damage but it was OK . This was imho a step too far but then I know we are not a risk !!!
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BOING is spot on, don't be too hasty to shoot the security screeners, they are merely doing as they are instructed, and are under enormous pressure to keep the passenger throughput at a maximum.
As has been stated, their instructions come from their own management, and their instructions come from the appropriate Governmental departments.
I agree that it seems farsical to confiscate nail clippers etc, (last year I had the pin from my Rememberence Day poppy taken from me), but who would be the first to be blamed when such a small item lead to an on board security incident?
As has been stated, their instructions come from their own management, and their instructions come from the appropriate Governmental departments.
I agree that it seems farsical to confiscate nail clippers etc, (last year I had the pin from my Rememberence Day poppy taken from me), but who would be the first to be blamed when such a small item lead to an on board security incident?
The problem is not with the screeners, they are following instructions passed down to them from the authorities. A great many of the rules are just window dressing to make it look like they are doing something and are totally illogical.
You can't take nail clippers on board but you can buy a glass bottle of duty free and take that.
We give the pax. plastic knives and forks and then give them a glass to drink out of.
A pilot who spends 12 hours locked in the flightdeck in charge of 300 tons of aircraft and 250 pax. is then not allowed to sit on the jumpseat on one of his own companies jets to get him home after the duty.
I can't take my leatherman airside but an engineer who I meet on the aircraft can.
You can't take nail clippers on board but you can buy a glass bottle of duty free and take that.
We give the pax. plastic knives and forks and then give them a glass to drink out of.
A pilot who spends 12 hours locked in the flightdeck in charge of 300 tons of aircraft and 250 pax. is then not allowed to sit on the jumpseat on one of his own companies jets to get him home after the duty.
I can't take my leatherman airside but an engineer who I meet on the aircraft can.
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Well I'm an engineer and I have been relieved of my leatherman at the security gate on a number of occasions. In my toolbox (airside) I keep a number of screwdrivers of assorted size and lethality, chisels, a couple of stanley (craft type) knives etc etc.
When I board aircraft that are bound for that sesspit of the world, the States, I am searched. However, when I then disembark the aircraft, having carried out my duties, I am not searched so who knows what I may have left secreted on board. It's a complete farce designed to appease the yanks who have not the first idea when it comes to security as I witnessed first hand in LA a couple of times this year.
When I board aircraft that are bound for that sesspit of the world, the States, I am searched. However, when I then disembark the aircraft, having carried out my duties, I am not searched so who knows what I may have left secreted on board. It's a complete farce designed to appease the yanks who have not the first idea when it comes to security as I witnessed first hand in LA a couple of times this year.