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Polish "Air Force One" departed from EPZG without permission

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Polish "Air Force One" departed from EPZG without permission

Old 7th Aug 2020, 16:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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aeromech3

Indeed. Beggars belief.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 18:29
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
This is exactly why giving the "Polish Force One" to civil operator is a mistake.
The situation is exactly opposite: using military services is risky. It led to a crash killing the former president of Poland 10 years ago. The military crew had broken all possible regulations, ignored all safety rules and crashed in the fog killing the president and many notable passengers (96 people died). >>> LINK <<<

Two years before that (in 2008) a military CASA C-295 M crashed at night killing many high ranking air force officers. >>> LINK <<<

Flying with the military seems like a recipe to crash.

Anyway, flying with the the current Polish government is very risky, the don't care about any rules, they openly ignore the law (including Polish constitution).
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 03:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aeromech3 View Post
question that needs answering is how ATC were allowed to go home when a presidential flight was waiting to leave?
sounds like they were out of hours. Would you raise that question of a pilot that wouldn’t work beyond their legal limits?
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 08:30
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ralphos View Post
The military crew had broken all possible regulations, ignored all safety rules and crashed in the fog killing the president...
I think if you read the full accident report you will come to the conclusion that the crew was in fact ordered to break all possible regulations by said commander in chief. It was the ultimate case of politicians meddling with aviation. A civilian crew in such situation is in a tad better position to say no...

Last edited by andrasz; 8th Aug 2020 at 08:42.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 08:53
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Banana4321 View Post
aeromech3

Indeed. Beggars belief.
Not really; the Polish side of my family informs me that there are plenty of people in Poland who would do all they can to inconvenience the much hated and despised President; having a legitimate reason for shutting down an airport he wanted to fly from later would be too good an opportunity to miss.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 20:21
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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It certainly would stir up Polish politics if the president won a bitterly contested election by a razor-thin margin and then died in a late-night aircraft crash on a small airfield. Maybe more excitement than Poland needs right now.

Do Polish politicos have some sort of congenital death wish in aircraft?

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Old 14th Aug 2020, 09:54
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
Do Polish politicos have some sort of congenital death wish in aircraft?
Not in particular, just aviation has a lower tolerance threshold for arrogance combined with ignorance and incompetence.

Last edited by andrasz; 16th Aug 2020 at 09:00.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 13:59
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I was not once rescuing military pilot, who had to take-off on a mission when the met conditions were lower than prescribed minima. Even military pilots are still pilots and should adhere to safety margins when operating in peacetime.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 09:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Why does it "beggar belief" that ATC were "allowed" to close? Whose permission do they need to? The airfield I assume has published Operating Hours, unless ATC were informed the President was running late and a request made to remain open I see no issue with sticking to them.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 19:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Here you go:
https://acukwik.com/Airport-Info/EPZG2020-06-06 · Airport Hours. M-F 0500-2000L, Su 1200-2000L. Control Tower Hours. See NOTAM. Variation. 04E. Distance from City. 34 KM NE OF TOWN. AFS/AFTN. INTERNATIONAL. SITA. INTERNATIONAL. ... TAF EPZG 232030Z 2321/2406 28004KT CAVOK BECMG 2321/2323 34010KT FC *** NO MESSAGES FOUND *** Last Update: 23 Jun 2020 20:00 ...
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 16:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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State Aircraft

Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
This is exactly why giving the "Polish Force One" to civil operator is a mistake. It is very convenient on most of occasions but then from time to time you have a moment when executive decision by Supreme Commander will solve any problem if you are military.
According to ICAO aircraft is considered as state aircraft when it is flying a state mission. Actual registration, operator ... etc does nor really matter. Maybe they broke some internal LOT Ops Manual rules but no EASA rules because they were not applicable.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 16:52
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Which types of aircraft or activities are excluded from EASA's competence?

Pursuant to Article 2(3) of Regulation 2018/1139 (The Basic Regulation), that regulation shall NOT apply to:

a) aircraft, and their engines, propellers, parts, non-installed equipment and equipment to control aircraft remotely, while carrying out military, customs, police, search and rescue, firefighting, border control, coastguard or similar activities or services under the control and responsibility of a Member State, undertaken in the public interest by or on behalf of a body vested with the powers of a public authority, and the personnel and organisations involved in the activities and services performed by those aircraft;
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 15:17
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I'd go along with the ones asking, what rule did they break?

I've flown in and out of closed airports quite a lot... we just needed a permission by the management, which we had for all the airports nearby, the agreement was for a year at a time (except one where the authority required a manned ATS unit open when using the airport).

There could be some regulatory requirements with regards to fire and rescue or ATC availability for the particular flight... besides that....

Even filing a flight plan, giving the centre a phonecall for a clearance, or departing up into uncontrolled and the pick up an ATC clearance in air is also an option.

I once had an ACTO stating that I needed lights on the runway when arriving after sunset (in twillight), which is correct, but not a requirement if ATC was not established.
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 05:20
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I'd go along with the ones asking, what rule did they break?
Not being of the "correct" political alignment...
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Old 18th Sep 2020, 08:57
  #35 (permalink)  
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I once had an ACTO stating that I needed lights on the runway when arriving after sunset (in twillight), which is correct, but not a requirement if ATC was not established.
Depends on your definition of twilight . The ICAO standard is clear ; You need runway light at night . Night is defined as Sunset + 30 minutes in the Northern hemisphere . so , no , in theory you do not need lights between Sunset and 30 min after
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