Boeing 737 Max Recertification Testing - Finally.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeing 737 Max Recertification Testing - Finally.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/faa-...r-crashes.html
The Federal Aviation Administration began recertification flights of the Boeing 737 Max on Monday, a key step toward permitting the planes to return to service after two fatal crashes more than a year ago.
The 737 Max, Boeing’s bestseller, has been grounded worldwide since March 2019 after the crashes — one in Indonesia and another in Ethiopia — within five months of one another. All 346 people on the flights were killed in the crashes. Boeing has since changed a flight-control system that was implicated in both crashes and has made other tweaks. Additional scrutiny of the aircraft contributed to repeated delays in the recertification process.
Boeing shares added to earlier gains after the first Max certification flight took off and were up more than 12% in afternoon trading Monday, leading the Dow Jones Industrial Average higher.
“The FAA is following a deliberate process and will take the time it needs to thoroughly review Boeing’s work,′ the FAA said in a statement. “We will lift the grounding order only after we are satisfied that the aircraft meets certification standards.”
The first flight departed 10 a.m. Pacific time from Seattle with other flights scheduled over about three days. “The tests are being conducted by test pilots and engineers from the FAA and Boeing,” the FAA said.
Regulators’ evaluation of the planes will continue for several more weeks and Boeing expects they will be back in commercial service by late fall. Other steps include an international evaluation of minimum pilot training requirements, the FAA said over the weekend.
“It is important to note, getting to this step does not mean the FAA has completed its compliance evaluation or other work associated with return to service,” the FAA said in a note to members of Congress on Sunday. “The FAA has not made a decision on return to service. We have a number of steps remaining after the conclusion of the certification flights.”
Boeing late last month resumed production of the planes after a pause earlier this year.
While it still has a robust backlog, Boeing has logged dozens of cancellations from customers. The Covid-19 pandemic is also expected to mean lower-than-usual travel demand for years, Boeing and airline executives have said, which could further hurt demand for new planes.
The Federal Aviation Administration began recertification flights of the Boeing 737 Max on Monday, a key step toward permitting the planes to return to service after two fatal crashes more than a year ago.
The 737 Max, Boeing’s bestseller, has been grounded worldwide since March 2019 after the crashes — one in Indonesia and another in Ethiopia — within five months of one another. All 346 people on the flights were killed in the crashes. Boeing has since changed a flight-control system that was implicated in both crashes and has made other tweaks. Additional scrutiny of the aircraft contributed to repeated delays in the recertification process.
Boeing shares added to earlier gains after the first Max certification flight took off and were up more than 12% in afternoon trading Monday, leading the Dow Jones Industrial Average higher.
“The FAA is following a deliberate process and will take the time it needs to thoroughly review Boeing’s work,′ the FAA said in a statement. “We will lift the grounding order only after we are satisfied that the aircraft meets certification standards.”
The first flight departed 10 a.m. Pacific time from Seattle with other flights scheduled over about three days. “The tests are being conducted by test pilots and engineers from the FAA and Boeing,” the FAA said.
Regulators’ evaluation of the planes will continue for several more weeks and Boeing expects they will be back in commercial service by late fall. Other steps include an international evaluation of minimum pilot training requirements, the FAA said over the weekend.
“It is important to note, getting to this step does not mean the FAA has completed its compliance evaluation or other work associated with return to service,” the FAA said in a note to members of Congress on Sunday. “The FAA has not made a decision on return to service. We have a number of steps remaining after the conclusion of the certification flights.”
Boeing late last month resumed production of the planes after a pause earlier this year.
While it still has a robust backlog, Boeing has logged dozens of cancellations from customers. The Covid-19 pandemic is also expected to mean lower-than-usual travel demand for years, Boeing and airline executives have said, which could further hurt demand for new planes.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: stansted
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Assuming all the recertification goes smoothly, what will happen?
For the 400 or so aircraft at Boeing, are these on mostly 'take or pay' contracts, or can the airlines cancel or delay with little penalty, at least in some cases if so how many? I expect this has been covered earlier, but I wondered what the latest estimates are.
For the 400 or so aircraft at Boeing, are these on mostly 'take or pay' contracts, or can the airlines cancel or delay with little penalty, at least in some cases if so how many? I expect this has been covered earlier, but I wondered what the latest estimates are.
MOL has openly stated that he can't wait to sit down with Boeing to discuss the take up of his planes on order as well as discuss future scheduled additions. His fleet is around 400 and he is expecting to increase that to somewhere in the 600 number in the future. Very ambitious, but when you look at their growth it's not in the realm of being unlikely.
I figure he reckons he can annihilate what in his mind is his competition.
You have to admire his business acumen, not but it does come at a price for all of us in the aviation world.
I figure he reckons he can annihilate what in his mind is his competition.
You have to admire his business acumen, not but it does come at a price for all of us in the aviation world.
Moderator
Let's stay on topic on this thread - the testing, recertification, and return of C of A's by the international authorities, of the 737MAX. Discussions of commercial, operational and fleet aspects will be appropriate after the recertification effort has resulted in international acceptance for return to service. It will be more than just the FAA who will test fly and evaluate the improved airplane.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 70
Posts: 991
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
The 52-page report by the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Office of Inspector General (IG), dated June 29 and set to be made public Wednesday, laid bare mistakes made by both the planemaker and FAA in the development and certification of Boeing’s top-selling aircraft.
David
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 71
Posts: 842
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For anyone wishing to read a good news report on the DOT IG document, from D. Gates reporting for the Seattle Times:
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...faa-missed-it/
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...faa-missed-it/
Thank you, Pilot
Maybe you could start a thread over where it belongs in order to get some of the politics outta the way, huh? We have too many real pilots here that can discuss the changes and the results of them and ......
No doubt many management and even engineering decisions resulted in th Max debacle, but I feel that should be left here and have the aero and system design stuff over on tech log, huh?
Maybe you could start a thread over where it belongs in order to get some of the politics outta the way, huh? We have too many real pilots here that can discuss the changes and the results of them and ......
No doubt many management and even engineering decisions resulted in th Max debacle, but I feel that should be left here and have the aero and system design stuff over on tech log, huh?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA Statement
The FAA and Boeing today completed the certification flight tests on the Boeing 737 MAX. During three days of testing this week, FAA pilots and engineers evaluated Boeing’s proposed changes in connection with the automated flight control system on the aircraft. While completion of the flights is an important milestone, a number of key tasks remain, including evaluating the data gathered during these flights. The agency is following a deliberate process and will take the time it needs to thoroughly review Boeing’s work. We will lift the grounding order only after FAA safety experts are satisfied that the aircraft meets certification standards.
The remaining tasks include:
· JOEB Validation & FSB Review – The FAA’s Flight Standardization Board (FSB) and the Joint Operations Evaluation Board (JOEB) which includes international partners from Canada, Europe, and Brazil will evaluate minimum pilot training requirements. The FSB will issue a draft report for public comment addressing the findings of the FSB and JOEB.
· Final FSB Report – The FAA will publish a final FSB report after reviewing and addressing public comments.
· Final Design Documentation and TAB Report – The FAA will review Boeing’s final design documentation in order to evaluate compliance with all FAA regulations. The multi-agency Technical Advisory Board (TAB) will also review the final Boeing submission and issue a final report prior to a final determination of compliance by the FAA.
· CANIC & AD – The FAA will issue a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) providing notice of pending significant safety actions and will publish an Airworthiness Directive (AD) that addresses the known issues for grounding. The AD will advise operators of required corrective actions before aircraft may re-enter commercial service.
· FAA Rescinds Grounding Order – This marks the official ungrounding of the aircraft, pending completion by operators of the work specified in the AD, along with any required training.
· Certificates of Airworthiness – The FAA will retain its authority to issue airworthiness certificates and export certificates for all new 737 MAX airplanes manufactured since the grounding. The FAA will perform in-person, individual reviews of these aircraft.
· Operator Training Programs – The FAA will review and approve training programs for all part 121 operators.
Here is a link to B-roll video from the flight tests:
Photo caption: Flight test crew from the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing Co. during certification flights of Boeing 737 MAX.
Attachments area
The FAA and Boeing today completed the certification flight tests on the Boeing 737 MAX. During three days of testing this week, FAA pilots and engineers evaluated Boeing’s proposed changes in connection with the automated flight control system on the aircraft. While completion of the flights is an important milestone, a number of key tasks remain, including evaluating the data gathered during these flights. The agency is following a deliberate process and will take the time it needs to thoroughly review Boeing’s work. We will lift the grounding order only after FAA safety experts are satisfied that the aircraft meets certification standards.
The remaining tasks include:
· JOEB Validation & FSB Review – The FAA’s Flight Standardization Board (FSB) and the Joint Operations Evaluation Board (JOEB) which includes international partners from Canada, Europe, and Brazil will evaluate minimum pilot training requirements. The FSB will issue a draft report for public comment addressing the findings of the FSB and JOEB.
· Final FSB Report – The FAA will publish a final FSB report after reviewing and addressing public comments.
· Final Design Documentation and TAB Report – The FAA will review Boeing’s final design documentation in order to evaluate compliance with all FAA regulations. The multi-agency Technical Advisory Board (TAB) will also review the final Boeing submission and issue a final report prior to a final determination of compliance by the FAA.
· CANIC & AD – The FAA will issue a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC) providing notice of pending significant safety actions and will publish an Airworthiness Directive (AD) that addresses the known issues for grounding. The AD will advise operators of required corrective actions before aircraft may re-enter commercial service.
· FAA Rescinds Grounding Order – This marks the official ungrounding of the aircraft, pending completion by operators of the work specified in the AD, along with any required training.
· Certificates of Airworthiness – The FAA will retain its authority to issue airworthiness certificates and export certificates for all new 737 MAX airplanes manufactured since the grounding. The FAA will perform in-person, individual reviews of these aircraft.
· Operator Training Programs – The FAA will review and approve training programs for all part 121 operators.
Here is a link to B-roll video from the flight tests:
Photo caption: Flight test crew from the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing Co. during certification flights of Boeing 737 MAX.
Attachments area
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best part.
· FAA Rescinds Grounding Order – This marks the official ungrounding of the aircraft, pending completion by operators of the work specified in the AD, along with any required training.
· FAA Rescinds Grounding Order – This marks the official ungrounding of the aircraft, pending completion by operators of the work specified in the AD, along with any required training.
Maybe I read the initial para wrong, Rotor, but thot FAA said:
Where's our Boeing or FAA "mole" now? Heh heh. And what exactly have they done, as it soumds like a lot more than a sfwe tweak?
We will lift the grounding order only after FAA safety experts are satisfied that the aircraft meets certification standards.
Thread Starter
Short answer is 'both'.
SOP for certification flight testing is that the FAA pilot is in the Left seat and and a Boeing Flight Test Pilot is in the Right seat. There will generally be at least one other FAA observer on board - typically in the left side observer seat (the right observer seat is normally occupied by the Boeing Flight Test Director). Other observers (both Boeing and FAA) will be in the back monitoring whatever instrumentation that have installed - or crammed into the back of the flight deck during specific test conditions (obviously everyone needs to be seated and strapped in for takeoff and landing or any test conditions which could result in excessive aircraft upset.
There are some pretty major insurance and liability implications if there isn't a company pilot in one of the pilot seats - I've never heard of an instance that FAA pilots were in both seats. It's similar when Boeing does remote flight tests using an operators aircraft - there is always one of the operators pilots in one of the front seats.
SOP for certification flight testing is that the FAA pilot is in the Left seat and and a Boeing Flight Test Pilot is in the Right seat. There will generally be at least one other FAA observer on board - typically in the left side observer seat (the right observer seat is normally occupied by the Boeing Flight Test Director). Other observers (both Boeing and FAA) will be in the back monitoring whatever instrumentation that have installed - or crammed into the back of the flight deck during specific test conditions (obviously everyone needs to be seated and strapped in for takeoff and landing or any test conditions which could result in excessive aircraft upset.
There are some pretty major insurance and liability implications if there isn't a company pilot in one of the pilot seats - I've never heard of an instance that FAA pilots were in both seats. It's similar when Boeing does remote flight tests using an operators aircraft - there is always one of the operators pilots in one of the front seats.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Airborne
Age: 63
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is an opportunity for the travelling public to send a strong message that only they have the final say on if they will travel on the MAX and not the FAA, EASA, or Boeing.
They are lining up to fly for $49 a ticket, they don't care about the MAX as long as masks are needed, that will protect them.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts