United Airlines, Chapter 11 status
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I don't remember the last airplane bombing, with checked baggage being the method used to plant a bomb, at least since Pan AM over Lockerbie. Maybe you can refresh me. And an easy fix is available, with strengthened containers. But you never hear about legislation to force airlines to use those, do you. Unlike many, I know when I am being lied to, and it has been a long time since any politician told the truth.
I fly often as crew and as pax, and I myself am offended by the way I am assumed to be a criminal. It goes beyond "Like a criminal", it is as if I WAS one. Seeing little girls and women being wanded and having to take off shoes does not inspire confidence. If it is so dangerous when flying that people like that are a threat, then it must be very dangerous indeed.
Of course that is total b.s., since even the WTC events were a once-off and an aberration, and flying is no more dangerous than it was before 9/11. And just like then, the real danger is pilot error, which the stupidity we are going through now does nothing to correct.
Perception is all, and the effort to show the public that something is being done to make flying safe again does the opposite. It puts fear in people's minds and creates chaos at the airports while doing so, turning away people who otherwise would have been happy to fly.
Bums in seats are what is needed to make flying profitable, and if the effort to improve security drives people away from flying then it is counter-productive. Killing the patient in order to save him.
We need a balanced approach, but there is too much money and power being shifted into the hands of the authorities around the world, and especially in the US, for any rational approach to have a chance.
I fly often as crew and as pax, and I myself am offended by the way I am assumed to be a criminal. It goes beyond "Like a criminal", it is as if I WAS one. Seeing little girls and women being wanded and having to take off shoes does not inspire confidence. If it is so dangerous when flying that people like that are a threat, then it must be very dangerous indeed.
Of course that is total b.s., since even the WTC events were a once-off and an aberration, and flying is no more dangerous than it was before 9/11. And just like then, the real danger is pilot error, which the stupidity we are going through now does nothing to correct.
Perception is all, and the effort to show the public that something is being done to make flying safe again does the opposite. It puts fear in people's minds and creates chaos at the airports while doing so, turning away people who otherwise would have been happy to fly.
Bums in seats are what is needed to make flying profitable, and if the effort to improve security drives people away from flying then it is counter-productive. Killing the patient in order to save him.
We need a balanced approach, but there is too much money and power being shifted into the hands of the authorities around the world, and especially in the US, for any rational approach to have a chance.
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Wino...union goon is right...your union and it's brotherhood are a one-way street...what about all the air wisconsin pilots that got screwed when united took away the milwaulkee hub that air willy spent decades building....you took their flying...did they get jobs offered to them....think not...but when your little nest begins to fall you somehow think that the regional pilots and airlines owe you jobs...who the hell do you think you are? I hope they liquidate ual and you can all go pound sand...the regionals will re-brand and the real pilots will remain employed, but you self-serving greedy bastards will get your just desserts...for decades commuter pilots banged around in crap airplanes on crap money trying to feed their families, and gain the hours to get a real job...now that the regionals are maturing into that(equipment-wise) anyway, you vote in your selfish scope clauses that once again dampen the career of regional pilots, then when the wheels come off your wagon, you want to run back...and take those jobs you "permitted" away...go home and take a long hard look in a mirror...at the wretched person you and most like you have become....and I hope the next time a major airline goes on strike...the regional pilots remember the treatment they have recieved from their major airline "union brothers", and trample the likes of you crossing the picket line...
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ALPA is now offering a 29% pay cut at UAL while the mechanics still want "full pay until the last day". Sadly, this may be yet another corporate meltdown where the employees could work for free and the company would still run out of money, credit and ideas soon.
_________________________________________________
UAL machinists reject cuts
All other unions OK lower wages
By Thomas A. Corfman and John Schmeltzer
Chicago Tribune staff reporters
Published December 28, 2002
Threatened with a bankruptcy court challenge to their current contracts, all but one of United Airlines' unions have agreed to steep temporary wage cuts as the troubled carrier moves ahead with billions of dollars in proposed cost-cutting.
The sole holdout is United's defiant machinists union. A bargaining unit of that union voted down a 7 percent pay cut nearly two weeks before United's parent, UAL Corp., filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors this month. United now seeks a 13 percent wage reduction from its 37,000 mechanics, ramp workers, customer service employees and gate agents.
The cuts are part of a plan to save an annual average of $2.4 billion over the next five years, more than double the savings that management sought before its bankruptcy...
...The Airline Pilots Association's negotiating committee has agreed to a 29 percent cut, according to the motion filed Friday by Kirkland & Ellis, United's bankruptcy attorneys. The pilots had previously agreed to an 18 percent cut...
...The temporary wage cuts proposed by United, including the reductions to be imposed on the mechanics, would save the company more than $70 million a month, the motion stated.
Yet the savings would be a fraction of the $10 million to $15 million in daily losses that United said it expected in January.
Meanwhile, the machinists union may hope the coming court battle gives them some badly needed leverage...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i%2Dnews%2Dhed
_________________________________________________
UAL machinists reject cuts
All other unions OK lower wages
By Thomas A. Corfman and John Schmeltzer
Chicago Tribune staff reporters
Published December 28, 2002
Threatened with a bankruptcy court challenge to their current contracts, all but one of United Airlines' unions have agreed to steep temporary wage cuts as the troubled carrier moves ahead with billions of dollars in proposed cost-cutting.
The sole holdout is United's defiant machinists union. A bargaining unit of that union voted down a 7 percent pay cut nearly two weeks before United's parent, UAL Corp., filed for Chapter 11 protection from creditors this month. United now seeks a 13 percent wage reduction from its 37,000 mechanics, ramp workers, customer service employees and gate agents.
The cuts are part of a plan to save an annual average of $2.4 billion over the next five years, more than double the savings that management sought before its bankruptcy...
...The Airline Pilots Association's negotiating committee has agreed to a 29 percent cut, according to the motion filed Friday by Kirkland & Ellis, United's bankruptcy attorneys. The pilots had previously agreed to an 18 percent cut...
...The temporary wage cuts proposed by United, including the reductions to be imposed on the mechanics, would save the company more than $70 million a month, the motion stated.
Yet the savings would be a fraction of the $10 million to $15 million in daily losses that United said it expected in January.
Meanwhile, the machinists union may hope the coming court battle gives them some badly needed leverage...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i%2Dnews%2Dhed
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Something that has been overlooked in why there are fewer high paying pax,is the colaspe of the stock market.This is the third year of declines in the DOW.So United as well as all the other high cost operators can no longer count on the Daddy Big Bucks created in the hey days of the 90's with the dot com's.People are investing big time in houses and new cars.Sales in the department stores in the U.S. are at a 30 year low.
So even though security at the airports have become a pain in the butt and airline service is a joke,people are making the choice of spending there limited dollars on homes and autos.This trend should continue as long as the economy is weak and interest rates are low.IMHO
So even though security at the airports have become a pain in the butt and airline service is a joke,people are making the choice of spending there limited dollars on homes and autos.This trend should continue as long as the economy is weak and interest rates are low.IMHO
Boofhead, Europe has had these security measures for years - Britain, France, Germany, Spain and Italy all have their own home grown terrorists and we have been living with the security consequences and got used to them. The USA is now having to get used to them as a fact of travelling life - and it appears the travelling public are staying away as a result.
The main differences that I see between the US and Europe airline security is down to the people carry out those checks. Whereas in Europe, an intelligent assessment of the pax/crew is carried out before screening, the US screener will select people at random and check the least likely suspects. Kids and flight deck alike! When I flew for a British long haul carrier, I was checked EVERY time I went through Boston Logan - while in uniform! Not only is it perplexing for the passengers, it's a waste of effort.
The main differences that I see between the US and Europe airline security is down to the people carry out those checks. Whereas in Europe, an intelligent assessment of the pax/crew is carried out before screening, the US screener will select people at random and check the least likely suspects. Kids and flight deck alike! When I flew for a British long haul carrier, I was checked EVERY time I went through Boston Logan - while in uniform! Not only is it perplexing for the passengers, it's a waste of effort.
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>>Whereas in Europe, an intelligent assessment of the pax/crew is carried out before screening, the US screener will select people at random and check the least likely suspects. Kids and flight deck alike!<<
Yep, we try to avoid "profiling" in the U.S. in our attempt to be sensitive to "minorities" (anyone but a non-Hispanic male of European ancestry in our system). Like most of these deals, the original intent is good but the application is taken to extremes by politicians, "civil rights advocates" and bureaucrats. Thus, much of the security probably misses the intended target and pax are chased away just when an airline recovery is most needed.
Yep, we try to avoid "profiling" in the U.S. in our attempt to be sensitive to "minorities" (anyone but a non-Hispanic male of European ancestry in our system). Like most of these deals, the original intent is good but the application is taken to extremes by politicians, "civil rights advocates" and bureaucrats. Thus, much of the security probably misses the intended target and pax are chased away just when an airline recovery is most needed.
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I don’t know what infuriates me more about the world of aviation post 9/11; the futility of what the authorities are doing or the sheep-like behaviour of the travelling public. One guy tried to set his shoes on fire and it did not work, so the authorities think that this is now the method of choice of all terrorists, rather than that they would think “this does not work, let’s try something else!” So we, who in the minds of the airport security personnel are all terrorists, have to take off our shoes. Why? To prove we are not as stupid as they are?
When the airplane takes off it is on its own. The crew and passengers are totally responsible for their own safety; nothing that has been done by the airport security or Homeland Security or FBI etc makes any difference. (Unless you consider a missile up the tail-pipe from an F16 is “help.”). Flying is not any more or less safe since 9/11; the biggest risk is still Pilot Error. What happened on 9/11 worked because it was unexpected, and the crew were following the current “cooperation” procedures in handling the hijackings. Now we all know better, and there is not a pilot out there who will give up his seat to a hijacker or allow an entry to the flight deck. No cabin crew or passenger will allow this to happen either. In the last year there have been several examples of this new self-determination. Safety is in our own hands, and nothing that is being done on the ground has any relevance to this. It is flatly impossible for airport security to prevent criminals and terrorists from getting on board and they know it. You should know it too.
The only positive step taken so far is the fitting of stronger flight deck doors, although the old ones work almost as well, so long as they are kept shut. Mandating explosives-proof baggage containers would be a good step, but the authorities will not do that. Bette, they think, to make flying safer by reducing the number of passengers and airplanes, and this is best done by making flying so uncomfortable that people will stay away from the airports. The latest figures show that the number of passengers flying domestically in the US is the same as it was in the month after 9/11, and some 12.8% less than it was in Nov 2000. Such a severe and continued drop is disaster to the airlines, and to all of us who use or are employed by them, directly or indirectly.
Watch the security staff who are doing the manual inspections of passenger baggage, when that baggage has been rejected by the CTX machines (25%?). They obviously have no idea of what a bomb is, if that is what they are concerned about. They poke and fiddle with the passenger’s belongings, lifting and shifting, totally unaware of things like anti-handling devices that would set off any explosives and blow them, and all the passengers waiting in the area, to an early demise. It is so ridiculous that it should be criminal. The authorities who set up this farce know that it is a sham and does not make flying any safer, yet they say “let us take over your rights and freedoms and we will guarantee you security.” Every time there is an incident in the air, the whole lot of the security staff at that airport should be fired, along with the supervisors in Washington, London or Sydney or wherever. But of course that will never happen, since the only reason this bloated establishment exists is for the promotion of government power.
Sure there was a need to do something after 9/11, if only to reassure the travelling public. But what was done should have been a considered response, and appropriate. What is now being done is such an over-reaction as to be suitable for a Steven King story. We all should be speaking out against it, and doing what we can to change it. If we don’t, there will be no aviation for us to protect and enjoy.
When the airplane takes off it is on its own. The crew and passengers are totally responsible for their own safety; nothing that has been done by the airport security or Homeland Security or FBI etc makes any difference. (Unless you consider a missile up the tail-pipe from an F16 is “help.”). Flying is not any more or less safe since 9/11; the biggest risk is still Pilot Error. What happened on 9/11 worked because it was unexpected, and the crew were following the current “cooperation” procedures in handling the hijackings. Now we all know better, and there is not a pilot out there who will give up his seat to a hijacker or allow an entry to the flight deck. No cabin crew or passenger will allow this to happen either. In the last year there have been several examples of this new self-determination. Safety is in our own hands, and nothing that is being done on the ground has any relevance to this. It is flatly impossible for airport security to prevent criminals and terrorists from getting on board and they know it. You should know it too.
The only positive step taken so far is the fitting of stronger flight deck doors, although the old ones work almost as well, so long as they are kept shut. Mandating explosives-proof baggage containers would be a good step, but the authorities will not do that. Bette, they think, to make flying safer by reducing the number of passengers and airplanes, and this is best done by making flying so uncomfortable that people will stay away from the airports. The latest figures show that the number of passengers flying domestically in the US is the same as it was in the month after 9/11, and some 12.8% less than it was in Nov 2000. Such a severe and continued drop is disaster to the airlines, and to all of us who use or are employed by them, directly or indirectly.
Watch the security staff who are doing the manual inspections of passenger baggage, when that baggage has been rejected by the CTX machines (25%?). They obviously have no idea of what a bomb is, if that is what they are concerned about. They poke and fiddle with the passenger’s belongings, lifting and shifting, totally unaware of things like anti-handling devices that would set off any explosives and blow them, and all the passengers waiting in the area, to an early demise. It is so ridiculous that it should be criminal. The authorities who set up this farce know that it is a sham and does not make flying any safer, yet they say “let us take over your rights and freedoms and we will guarantee you security.” Every time there is an incident in the air, the whole lot of the security staff at that airport should be fired, along with the supervisors in Washington, London or Sydney or wherever. But of course that will never happen, since the only reason this bloated establishment exists is for the promotion of government power.
Sure there was a need to do something after 9/11, if only to reassure the travelling public. But what was done should have been a considered response, and appropriate. What is now being done is such an over-reaction as to be suitable for a Steven King story. We all should be speaking out against it, and doing what we can to change it. If we don’t, there will be no aviation for us to protect and enjoy.
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More details of the latest UAL ALPA Interim Relief Letter of Agreement are available. As advertised, it is a 29% pay cut almost across the board (exceptions include the "A" plan based on original book rates).
A twelve year 744 captain will make only $226.48 an hour and a 757 or 767 captain with the same seniority will be dropped to $172.21 an hour. These rates do not include International Override or Night Incentive Pay, reduced to about $4.65 and $8.73 per hour respectively for a captain. So far, work rules are untouched but will certainly be negotiated downward if the company can somehow avoid liquidation in the coming weeks.
Suddenly, most of the unions have got religion and want to rush to cut pay after taking a good look at the sharks circling at the bankruptcy court.
A twelve year 744 captain will make only $226.48 an hour and a 757 or 767 captain with the same seniority will be dropped to $172.21 an hour. These rates do not include International Override or Night Incentive Pay, reduced to about $4.65 and $8.73 per hour respectively for a captain. So far, work rules are untouched but will certainly be negotiated downward if the company can somehow avoid liquidation in the coming weeks.
Suddenly, most of the unions have got religion and want to rush to cut pay after taking a good look at the sharks circling at the bankruptcy court.
I am curious about national mobilization requirements.
If we quickly needed many planes to fly troops to a conflict, for example with the CRAF (Civilian Reserve Air Fleet), how many widebody planes from United, or American or Delta would be used? How profitable is this, i.e. per hundred hours or so, compared to the present anemic civilian ticket prices, if any? How about cargo airlines?
How fast can passenger planes, which have been in the desert for about a year (Mojave, CA, or Marana Air Park, AZ) or less, be prepared for flight? Once ready, their dispatch rates might be better than with the old Air Force C-141s and C-5s.
Can BRITISH planes be chartered to carry troops? This MIGHT get the attention of Pprune Towers' supervisors!
If we quickly needed many planes to fly troops to a conflict, for example with the CRAF (Civilian Reserve Air Fleet), how many widebody planes from United, or American or Delta would be used? How profitable is this, i.e. per hundred hours or so, compared to the present anemic civilian ticket prices, if any? How about cargo airlines?
How fast can passenger planes, which have been in the desert for about a year (Mojave, CA, or Marana Air Park, AZ) or less, be prepared for flight? Once ready, their dispatch rates might be better than with the old Air Force C-141s and C-5s.
Can BRITISH planes be chartered to carry troops? This MIGHT get the attention of Pprune Towers' supervisors!
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A twelve year 747 Captain will ONLY make 226.48 an hour!!
That's still $17'000 a month, which kick's the cr@p out of the average monthly wage in the US.
That's still $17'000 a month, which kick's the cr@p out of the average monthly wage in the US.
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Almost Outta Time And Outta Cash
CEO Tilton is behind the power curve. Too little too late. UAL is in a deep stall. Still losing $17+ Million per day.
Deptor In Possession requirements specify that between 01 Dec 2002 and 28 Jan 2003 UAL can lose no more than $964 Million Dollars. But during the entire month of December UAL (losing $22 Million per day) already had squandered $682 Million; so you don't need an abacus to do the math. The collective payroll savings, estimated at $76 Million per month fall far short of meeting the deadline. The only slim hope for continuing operations next month would be to make immediate asset and route sales, otherwise the banks will pull the plug.
Deptor In Possession requirements specify that between 01 Dec 2002 and 28 Jan 2003 UAL can lose no more than $964 Million Dollars. But during the entire month of December UAL (losing $22 Million per day) already had squandered $682 Million; so you don't need an abacus to do the math. The collective payroll savings, estimated at $76 Million per month fall far short of meeting the deadline. The only slim hope for continuing operations next month would be to make immediate asset and route sales, otherwise the banks will pull the plug.
I had an arsehole transplant but the arsehole rejected me, which is why I write such rubbish
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Saudipc-9
SaudiPc-9;
I think you could be mssing the big picture. For $226:48 an hour, please bear in mind most piots who make this money only work 80 to 90 hours a week. So if you slash that to an hourly wage, that's about $113:00 an hour. I am currently making $60:00 an hour to keep a major utility company up and running.
Having said that, I don't have 250+ lives in my hands at any different moment. If I screw up, all I have is a lot of cold peoplee who yell and complain....must like on an airline.
Like all pilots, I drive for and expect nothing less than excellance. And I expect the pilots to get paid likewise. They have too much responsibility to look at it any other way.
Andy
I think you could be mssing the big picture. For $226:48 an hour, please bear in mind most piots who make this money only work 80 to 90 hours a week. So if you slash that to an hourly wage, that's about $113:00 an hour. I am currently making $60:00 an hour to keep a major utility company up and running.
Having said that, I don't have 250+ lives in my hands at any different moment. If I screw up, all I have is a lot of cold peoplee who yell and complain....must like on an airline.
Like all pilots, I drive for and expect nothing less than excellance. And I expect the pilots to get paid likewise. They have too much responsibility to look at it any other way.
Andy
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As a former UAL employee, I'm sorry to see them in the predicament that they are in. I place the blame on the UAL Board of Directors for allowing Goodwin to rape the airline,
rape them by putting forth the US Airways merger - I was working the ORD B767 pilot crew desk the day the UA/US Merger was announced, working across from people who worked 20+ years at UAL, and just saw their retirements disappear - the UAL stock tanked 20+ bucks that day, and never recovered, never.
raped UAL by even suggesting Avolar. Lord only knows how much $ was burned by that stupidity.
raped UAL by even suggesting, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MOST CONTENTIOUS contract negotiations, the US/UA merger - lord only knows how much longer the UA/ALPA negotiations were extended by the merger announcement.
I wish my former colleages the best, but the cynic in me says that history will again repeat itself. The parallels between UAL and EAL are downright scary - only thing thats missing is Frank Lorenzo. We have a militant machinists union, and a world-class airline this close from Ch 7 liquidation
rape them by putting forth the US Airways merger - I was working the ORD B767 pilot crew desk the day the UA/US Merger was announced, working across from people who worked 20+ years at UAL, and just saw their retirements disappear - the UAL stock tanked 20+ bucks that day, and never recovered, never.
raped UAL by even suggesting Avolar. Lord only knows how much $ was burned by that stupidity.
raped UAL by even suggesting, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MOST CONTENTIOUS contract negotiations, the US/UA merger - lord only knows how much longer the UA/ALPA negotiations were extended by the merger announcement.
I wish my former colleages the best, but the cynic in me says that history will again repeat itself. The parallels between UAL and EAL are downright scary - only thing thats missing is Frank Lorenzo. We have a militant machinists union, and a world-class airline this close from Ch 7 liquidation
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Dispatcherdoug if you're going bring up the histroy of "why EAL went under" you have to go back to before the Frank Lorenzo days. The gentleman that was in charge was Col.Frank Borman and olny after the "nite of the long knives" was EAL forced to shut down or deal with Frank Lorenzo.Frank Lorenzo ran CAL which is still in business because his employess worked with him. At EAL however the IAM and ALPA teemed up together to get Lorenzo.Lorenzo won by milking EAL with management fees and stealing the best assets from EAL and transferring them to CAL.The pilots have Capt.Duffy from DAL to thank for loosing their jobs. The moral of the story is "not to let your emotions cloud your judgement".UAL management and the employees can share in the blame or they can work together for their future. Name calling should of been left at the playground ,a long time ago. imho
Tsgas Let' read about what type of straight-forward guy Mr. Lorenzo was: this should be educational for all of us.
Filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, in order to avoid complying with any contract language, and also in order to skip further negotiations with unions, which would have offered pay concessions, should be included. Will you also include how many Dept. of Transportation judges ruled in his favor, just before leaving government service for lucrative jobs with his holding company, or affiliates? How about the FAA's Western Region, which due to the political philosophy at the FAA, allegedly suppresed troublesome documentation on Continental's flight operations, in order not to embarass the Reagan Administration?
But never mind history, let's read the "New Age" version.
Filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, in order to avoid complying with any contract language, and also in order to skip further negotiations with unions, which would have offered pay concessions, should be included. Will you also include how many Dept. of Transportation judges ruled in his favor, just before leaving government service for lucrative jobs with his holding company, or affiliates? How about the FAA's Western Region, which due to the political philosophy at the FAA, allegedly suppresed troublesome documentation on Continental's flight operations, in order not to embarass the Reagan Administration?
But never mind history, let's read the "New Age" version.
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Ign O/R I agree with you about what a slime bucket Lorenzo was but you miss the point by being just a little narrow minded.Hank Duffy destroyed the pilot jobs at EAL ,no matter how you try to deny the TRUTH.Frank Borman was a gentleman and had the ALPA pilots not stabbed him in the back,EAL would not of been sold to Lorenzo.Col.Borman warned the pilots and they called his bluff.So if you support the union blindly and deny the TRUTH then that that is your choice.I was there and it was not a pretty site.I also made money on the union's stupidy because I bought CAL shares knowing full well that Lorenzo was going to rape EAL.I advanced my aviation after the fall of EAL but most former emptoyees lost big time.Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
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Hmmm, some may well be too young to remember (or choose to forget) that Continental after Robert Six passed away (and even before) was ALWAYS the weakest US trunk carrier...indeed UAL (strange as it seems now) cleaned their clock on the LAX-DEN-ORD route....CAL's most profitable.
Lorenzo recognised this and asked for wage concessions...which ALPA promptly rejected.
The rest is history...so to speak.
Lorenzo recognised this and asked for wage concessions...which ALPA promptly rejected.
The rest is history...so to speak.
Tsgas: I appreciate your tactful response, and the acknowledgement that Lorenzo was a 'slime bucket'. I had no idea that you were there, and my comments were not intended to imply that I had any experience as an insider. Despite what has been said about ALPA (whether caused by Duffy's agenda or not) and no matter what major blunders were made by national or the Eastern MEC, old Lorenzo's main goals were always to destroy any unions (and indirectly, airlines, in order to enrich himself), even if they were trying to negotiate and offer some pay concessions. Lorenzo decided to strip valuable assets from Eastern and lease them back at very high rates, from what many of us have always read in the aviation press.
After he 'built' Continental, so to speak, by tearing up all of the labor contracts through his filing of Chapter 11, why was Continental then not a strong carrier? Based on the ever-popular theory that airline labor costs are always the main obstacle (or scapegoat) on the road to any airline's financial health, can anyone explain this, knowing that CO's labor costs were very low after Chap 11? Among the dozens of US jet and turboprop airlines which were created under Deregulation and then folded, almost all had very modest labor costs, from the beginning to the end. FAPA (later Air, Inc) did Salary Surveys years ago.
Come on gang-if someone wants to build an airline, does this person sell off whatever assets (i.e. Soda computer res. systems) he/she feels like and pocket huge chunks of operating cash, through vehicles such as Jet Capital, Texas Air Corp. etc?
After he 'built' Continental, so to speak, by tearing up all of the labor contracts through his filing of Chapter 11, why was Continental then not a strong carrier? Based on the ever-popular theory that airline labor costs are always the main obstacle (or scapegoat) on the road to any airline's financial health, can anyone explain this, knowing that CO's labor costs were very low after Chap 11? Among the dozens of US jet and turboprop airlines which were created under Deregulation and then folded, almost all had very modest labor costs, from the beginning to the end. FAPA (later Air, Inc) did Salary Surveys years ago.
Come on gang-if someone wants to build an airline, does this person sell off whatever assets (i.e. Soda computer res. systems) he/she feels like and pocket huge chunks of operating cash, through vehicles such as Jet Capital, Texas Air Corp. etc?
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History IS repeating itself
History is repeating itself at UAL and USAir. This time the courts are the ones tearing up the union contracts. Sec. 1113 has provided companies with the opportunity to shove contracts across the table at the unions and slash pay, retirement and benefits.
The next time the airlines are in the growth mode and pilots and mechs. are in short supply, management shouldn't be surprised when the unions bust their balls to get back much of what is being taken in this swing of the pendulum.
Rest assured that none of the Senior management at the airlines will ultimately lose a penny of compensation over this.(They may take token cuts and not get stock options NOW but they will eventually get repaid in full...they always do.)
The road to the Hamptons is paved in pink slips.TC
The next time the airlines are in the growth mode and pilots and mechs. are in short supply, management shouldn't be surprised when the unions bust their balls to get back much of what is being taken in this swing of the pendulum.
Rest assured that none of the Senior management at the airlines will ultimately lose a penny of compensation over this.(They may take token cuts and not get stock options NOW but they will eventually get repaid in full...they always do.)
The road to the Hamptons is paved in pink slips.TC