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Can General Aviation restart now ?

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Can General Aviation restart now ?

Old 11th May 2020, 10:18
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Problem i see will the airports open. If they open there is no excuse for clubs to not start flying.
The airport i work on they could have kept staff on and redecorate the place, not close down for furlough money.
Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.

The key is non essential work, flying light GA is not essential, but has that now changed as Boris said go to work if you can.
I can if others will let me.

Last edited by BigEndBob; 11th May 2020 at 10:30.
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Old 11th May 2020, 11:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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As so many are, in typical PPRuNe fashion, nit-picking about words and terms, could someone please provide me with a reference to
... the CAA's blanket ban on GA ?
Or are we going to be nit-picking about the difference between a 'recommendation' and a 'ban'?!!
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Old 11th May 2020, 14:28
  #23 (permalink)  
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Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.
An interpretation worth considering, though it casts the identity of a lot of cars and SUV's into question! I suppose the dealers could sell "hobby cars", 'seems fair!

The key is non essential work, flying light GA is not essential,
"GA" is too broad to allow an "essential" designation. I would agree that recreational flying is difficult to interpret as essential, though many other types of flying in "GA" aircraft may be essential. I flew three hours of forest fire spotting at the request of the Fire Chief week before last in my planes, the Chief thought my flying was essential. Otherwise, police and medevac are two other examples of essential GA flying.

In my opinion, within the bounds of national regulation, if a pilot can access and fly a plane recreationally while still respecting all requirements for social distancing, is it a problem? We pilots should certainly mentor each other to respect society, and regulation, but there's no need to take things to the extreme beyond what an interpretation may dictate. It's essential that people have an opportunity to maintain their mental health, and for some, hobby flying (or any other solitary hobby) may play a large role in that. For me; "live and let live" - literally!
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Old 11th May 2020, 14:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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True you canít work from home but you still need to socially distance which would be difficult in a C152 or PA28.
Quite frankly I don't see a problem as long as you wear a face mask and don't snog your instructor!!! Common sense really isn't out and about much at the moment
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Old 11th May 2020, 15:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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“Sport i would have thought is defined as an activity were some competition and winning is involved, so other than air racing, flying light aircraft is not a sport, it's a hobby.”

There are plenty of recreations that are also a sport, Golf for a start it’s not a win or loose game for most, you aim to improve your handicap but most never take part in a competition, cycling, marathon running, horse riding, some set targets some just to keep fit. Light Aviation isnt particularly competitive but Gliding can be very competitive and is becoming more so.

So there is no distinction between Sport and Recreation.
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Old 12th May 2020, 11:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Social distancing is the obvious issue, as is the problem that is you have an 'incident' that requires the emergency services to attend then you are depriving others of that essential service for the sake of your hobby and self-indulgence.

This is the line taken by the LAA.

Private flying is way down the list of activities to be undertaken at the moment.

Two examples of the shortage of emergency response:

A friend of mine had a heart attack just over two weeks ago. He managed to reach home to dial 999. The response was 'sorry, we have no ambulances available at the moment'. His partner drove him at high speed to Preston - and then he was taken to Blackpool for specialist treatment. He is recovering, but it was a close call.

The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.

So before you think of recreational flying with your mates, remember there are others who may suffer if you should have issues as a consequence of your own enjoyment.
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Old 12th May 2020, 13:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Weathergirly View Post
There will always be commentators that sit on opposing sides of the fence. For those that wish to remain grounded, what do you propose? What will it take to get solo flying back in the air?
GA is a sport, it’s the most exercise I get, pushing the A/C to the pumps, in and out the hangar, cleaning, pre flight etc etc.
Lets be positive in these challenging times and let’s get things moving in a safe and considered manner.
I think you'll find it's a hobby not a sport. Sport tends to involve a competitive element but if you think getting it out and washed as quickly as possible constitutes sport then I'm on another planet

And for spanner, my sincere condolences on your loss which really bring all of this into perspective.

Last edited by 250 kts; 12th May 2020 at 15:31.
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Old 12th May 2020, 14:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpannerInTheWerks View Post

The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.
Good God. I'm so sorry for you and your family.
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Old 12th May 2020, 19:33
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpannerInTheWerks View Post
Social distancing is the obvious issue, as is the problem that is you have an 'incident' that requires the emergency services to attend then you are depriving others of that essential service for the sake of your hobby and self-indulgence.

This is the line taken by the LAA.

Private flying is way down the list of activities to be undertaken at the moment.

Two examples of the shortage of emergency response:

A friend of mine had a heart attack just over two weeks ago. He managed to reach home to dial 999. The response was 'sorry, we have no ambulances available at the moment'. His partner drove him at high speed to Preston - and then he was taken to Blackpool for specialist treatment. He is recovering, but it was a close call.

The second example, sadly, involved my 9 week old granddaughter. The delay in response mean't she died before the ambulance arrived. Attending the funeral of a baby is not something I would want anyone to have to endure.

So before you think of recreational flying with your mates, remember there are others who may suffer if you should have issues as a consequence of your own enjoyment.
Unfortunately delays like these occur all the time. You may find the ambulance has been sent to a care home to pick up a resident off the floor. I have seen this a few times when i use to visit mother in her care home.
There are many cars on the road now and will be shortly even more. Flying doesn't add any more pressure than daily driving to the likely hood of an accident.
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Old 13th May 2020, 12:52
  #30 (permalink)  
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GA is not just recreation for some this is a means of transport that avoids congestion on public transport i.e long distance rail travel now flybe has collapsed.

For flying instructors and many companies and their staff GA is their means of earning a living. Its their means of paying the bills putting food on the table and contributing to taxation without which ultimately there will be no public services at all in the future.

We have had seven weeks of lock down during which time the CAA could have got themselves in step with Government policy and provided leadership on restarting flying.

The CAA are now 72 hours astern of station in terms of being in compliance with a Prime Ministerial directive to get back to work.
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Old 13th May 2020, 13:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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It might be ok for flying instructors to return to work. But how are the students “working”, unless they are being paid to learn to fly?
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Old 13th May 2020, 13:22
  #32 (permalink)  
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The instructor is working in just the same way as say a plumber in your house is working. The student I very much hope is working towards the attainment of a PPL which for many is the first step towards a CPL or they are a professional student training for a professional licence CPL ATPL and all the necessary additional ratings night IR etc.

As an ex crab you may have had everything paid for by the Queen and experienced the luxury of being paid to learn to fly. But in the commercial world the student pays for everything makes great sacrifices. Their training continuity is vital to their progress and their bank balance.

Tube passengers are not working when sat on the tube train but the driver is paid and allowed to go to work.
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Old 13th May 2020, 14:31
  #33 (permalink)  
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Slow down people, we're in this together. We would all like to be back to full freedom in many things, including flying. It's different place to place, and by other circumstances (employment/work rules) too. There's no point in poking at each other about it here. If some are able to fly within the bounds of the rules, and social responsibility, and choose to, they are supporting our industry. If others would rather wait it out, or have no choice, we support their present reality. Why would anyone criticize either?
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Old 14th May 2020, 10:12
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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The CAA just published safety advice for the resumption of GA flying (publicapps.caa [dot] co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=9614), but there's still no change to the .gov.uk advice since the last update back in March.
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Old 15th May 2020, 09:14
  #35 (permalink)  
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Every day I receive an update from the canal and river trust about what I can and cannot do with my boat. Initially you could not visit your boat, then you were allowed to visit but not sail, now you can sail but do not use the locks and do not overnight on your boat. Guidance and information every step of the way. Compared and contrast that to the silence from the Civil Aviation Authority. Issue some guidance please at least to say why the ban is still in place and when it will be reviewed. We are supposed to be avoiding public transport and for those of us lucky enough to have access to an aeroplane flying is one way of doing that. The Prime Minister has instructed us to go back to work were we can't work from home. As a flight instructor I need to work or I starve. I am assuming that the CAA is subordinate to the Prime Minister so it is time that the CAA explain to us why they are out of step with the Governments broadcast intent.
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Old 15th May 2020, 12:20
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paul Rice View Post
Every day I receive an update from the canal and river trust about what I can and cannot do with my boat. Initially you could not visit your boat, then you were allowed to visit but not sail, now you can sail but do not use the locks and do not overnight on your boat. Guidance and information every step of the way. Compared and contrast that to the silence from the Civil Aviation Authority. Issue some guidance please at least to say why the ban is still in place and when it will be reviewed. We are supposed to be avoiding public transport and for those of us lucky enough to have access to an aeroplane flying is one way of doing that. The Prime Minister has instructed us to go back to work were we can't work from home. As a flight instructor I need to work or I starve. I am assuming that the CAA is subordinate to the Prime Minister so it is time that the CAA explain to us why they are out of step with the Governments broadcast intent.
And here it is, from the Department for Transport:

http://www.gov.uk/government/publica...neral-aviation

not good (yet), Iím afraid

Last edited by BONES_; 15th May 2020 at 12:40.
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Old 16th May 2020, 23:31
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Considering such essential locations as garden centres and angling lakes have now been officially allowed to reopen Iím struggling to see how flying a light aircraft is helping to spread the virus.
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Old 16th May 2020, 23:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Considering such essential locations as garden centres and angling lakes have now been officially allowed to reopen Iím struggling to see how flying a light aircraft is helping to spread the virus.
It is not flying the light aircraft, it is all about the passengers and the pilot and if they are carriers. So I guess the only safety measure is a Mandatory quarantine until such time as both are shown to be virus free.
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Old 18th May 2020, 09:25
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigEndBob View Post
Problem i see will the airports open. If they open there is no excuse for clubs to not start flying.
The airport i work on they could have kept staff on and redecorate the place, not close down for furlough money.
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