QATAR Airways QTR28N Mel-Doh

[pgrwrx]

Flight took off from MEL at approximately 22:20ADST 8th Feb 2020. Currently flying at approx 8800ft Grd speed 260MPH. Doing laps of the bay area. Nothing on news feeds. Probably dumping fuel.

[diffident]

Originally Posted by pgrwrx

Flight took off from MEL at approximately 22:20ADST 8th Feb 2020currently flying at approx 8800ft Grd speed 260MPH. Doing laps of the bay area. Nothing on news feeds. Probably dumping fuel.

Conflicting reports on social media suggesting either a landing gear problem or an engine problem. Nothing definitive though.

It's a Qatar A380 - here's the Flight Radar link - https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR28N/23cbfcc2

[Airbubba]

QR905/QTR28N has finished fuel dump, requests 30 minutes more holding to burn fuel. Descending to 6000 feet.

After takeoff QTR28N reported a 'gear retraction problem' to ATC at the beginning of this clip:

https://archive-server.liveatc.net/y...2020-1130Z.mp3

LiveATC audio: https://www.liveatc.net/hlisten.php?...mml3&icao=ymml

FR24: https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR28N/23cbfcc2

[chuboy]

An awful lot of fuel to waste.

[Airbubba]

On the ground, vacating the runway at K. Taxi A, T, Bay D9.

[zerograv]

"gear retraction problem"

Yeah, keep the gear down ! You'll burn fuel more quickly that way, if the problem is to much fuel.

Now assuming that they had 4 good working engines, why the hell concentrate the fuel dump in a bay ?

What would be the problem taking it out to the sea, and even to an higher altitude to reduce concentration, and dump there ?

[Commander Taco]

Originally Posted by zerograv

Now assuming that they had 4 good working engines, why the hell concentrate the fuel dump in a bay ?

What would be the problem taking it out to the sea, and even to an higher altitude to reduce concentration, and dump there ?

Zerograv: Large international airports have designated fuel jettison areas with associated minimum altitudes to ensure complete evaporation of the fuel.. For example, CYYZ has a designated area over Lake Ontario, CYVR up the Howe Sound about 35nm northwest of the airport, ZBAA has one about 20nm NNE of the field. The aircrews don’t just dump fuel wherever they feel like it.

[clark y]

Interesting holding pattern, not quite the standard racetrack. Is that just countless vectors over the water or is there a way to plot the hold in the A380?

Interesting to see if the snapper and flatheads caught from the bay have a nice kerosene taste for a while.

[zerograv]

Originally Posted by Commander Taco

Zerograv: Large international airports have designated fuel jettison areas with associated minimum altitudes to ensure complete evaporation of the fuel.. For example, CYYZ has a designated area over Lake Ontario, CYVR up the Howe Sound about 35nm northwest of the airport, ZBAA has one about 20nm NNE of the field. The aircrews don’t just dump fuel wherever they feel like it.

Thanks for the explanation !

Now I know that the designated dumping area in Melbourne is the bay south of town.

[fatbus]

Assuming @200 T fuel , T/O wt @570 , they could dump @ 120 T fuel. Hopefully they dumped to a brake energy wt rather than feed tank only just because they could.

[fdr]

Originally Posted by zerograv

Now assuming that they had 4 good working engines, why the hell concentrate the fuel dump in a bay ?

What would be the problem taking it out to the sea, and even to an higher altitude to reduce concentration, and dump there ?

From the height they were at, the fuel vaporises and doesn't reach the ground as a precipitate.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by clark y

Interesting holding pattern, not quite the standard racetrack. Is that just countless vectors over the water or is there a way to plot the hold in the A380?

In this case they were vectored by ATC.

Discussion of the dump plan starting about 10 minutes into this LiveATC.net clip:

https://archive-server.liveatc.net/y...2020-1200Z.mp3

[Dave Gittins]

Just musing .. presumably if 120 T of kerosene evaporates in a relatively small area, it must condense at some point. So will it rain (very) dilute kerosene wherever that moist air from above the bay ends up over the next few days. At what dilution % age will you still be able to smell it ?

[Chu Chu]

When something evaporates, it's because the ambient conditions favor that (if I remember right, the vapor pressure of the liquid has to be more than the ambient partial pressure of its vapor). It doesn't condense again unless the conditions change. And since the partial pressure of kerosene vapor would drop as it mixes into the atmosphere, subsequent condensation seems pretty unlikely.

I'm not sure what eventually happens to it. My guess would be that it oxidizes over time (forming water vapor and CO2). Maybe it stays in the atmosphere for a length of time, diluted to undetectable levels. But there are many other ways that petrochemicals get evaporated into the atmosphere (doubtless totaling much large amounts), and we generally don't walk around smelling them.

[Pearly White]

Originally Posted by Chu Chu

When something evaporates, it's because the ambient conditions favor that (if I remember right, the vapor pressure of the liquid has to be more than the ambient partial pressure of its vapor). It doesn't condense again unless the conditions change. And since the partial pressure of kerosene vapor would drop as it mixes into the atmosphere, subsequent condensation seems pretty unlikely.

I'm not sure what eventually happens to it. My guess would be that it oxidizes over time (forming water vapor and CO2). Maybe it stays in the atmosphere for a length of time, diluted to undetectable levels. But there are many other ways that petrochemicals get evaporated into the atmosphere (doubtless totaling much large amounts), and we generally don't walk around smelling them.

The kerosene is vectored to the nearest bushfire area, where it is safely burnt off in the pyrocumulus.

[bean]

Originally Posted by Commander Taco

Zerograv: Large international airports have designated fuel jettison areas with associated minimum altitudes to ensure complete evaporation of the fuel.. For example, CYYZ has a designated area over Lake Ontario, CYVR up the Howe Sound about 35nm northwest of the airport, ZBAA has one about 20nm NNE of the field. The aircrews don’t just dump fuel wherever they feel like it.

Maybe someone should tell Delta Airlines

[Tedderboy]

Looks like QR905 is burning off fuel overhead Sumatra...just doing circles for last 20 minutes - possible diversion to Singapore?

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by Tedderboy

Looks like QR905 is burning off fuel overhead Sumatra...just doing circles for last 20 minutes - possible diversion to Singapore?

Looks like SIN wouldn't take them for some reason so now they are doing a jettison in the hold at SALAX to go into KUL, planning landing runway 32R.

From FR24:

[VH DSJ]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

Looks like SIN wouldn't take them for some reason so now they are doing a jettison in the hold at SALAX to go into KUL, planning landing runway 32R.

From FR24:

Jettison? You'd think after flying almost 11 hours, it will be well under it's MLW by now!!

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by VH DSJ

Jettison? You'd think after flying almost 11 hours, it will be well under it's MLW by now!!

I agree. The circle on the way to SIN was done at FL370. After they turned toward KUL they went into the hold at FL210 and later 11000 feet. The Lumpur Approach audio on LiveATC.net wasn't too good but it sounded like they were offered an approach but said they would continue the jettison. Maybe they said negative jettison. But they held for almost an hour near K.L. from 2145Z to 2238Z.

Hydraulic problem with reduced braking? Number 1 and 4 reversers inop? For some reason they had to divert but were in no hurry to get on the ground.