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Bombardier clocking out of aviation

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Bombardier clocking out of aviation

Old 6th Feb 2020, 09:02
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Bombardier clocking out of aviation

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...136534.article

Looks like (a) Bombardier is completely disappointed in aviation business and is leaving, and (b) Textron will now own Cessna, Beechcraft, and Bombardier. Will be a strong manufacturer provided its approved by anti-trust authoritires.

VERY surprising move from Bombardier considering how good the A220 is. And if they think their transportation division will run smoothly in the rail segment, they are in for a huge surprise. They don't have one product that doesn't have at least two competitors. And if bailing out is their reaction to tight competition, how long till they put the entire company on a garage sale?
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 12:57
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Trains

The new rolling stock hasnít made a good impression in German speaking Europe - lots of teething problems.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 14:17
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Originally Posted by ProPax View Post
https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...136534.article

Looks like (a) Bombardier is completely disappointed in aviation business and is leaving, and (b) Textron will now own Cessna, Beechcraft, and Bombardier. Will be a strong manufacturer provided its approved by anti-trust authoritires.

VERY surprising move from Bombardier considering how good the A220 is. And if they think their transportation division will run smoothly in the rail segment, they are in for a huge surprise. They don't have one product that doesn't have at least two competitors. And if bailing out is their reaction to tight competition, how long till they put the entire company on a garage sale?
Not surprisingly since Boeing tried to run them out of business after Delta order and they were 'forced' to sell the C series (which is a great plane) for nothing to Airbus.

Arrogant company (weird stock class for founding Beaudoin family, invisible CEO that is paid way too much for someone who just sells divisions, the list goes on) that bit off more than they could chew. Will now be Alstom-Bombardier or something similar.

If they would have stuck to trains and business jets (and they should have kept BRP) they would be ok but delusions of grandeur. No military procurement going their way as opposed to Boeing and EADS was always going to be a big issue since they would always be accused of getting 'subsidies'. Don't get me wrong, this company is a master of getting handouts at various levels of government here in Canada but that particular double standard always grated me the wrong way.

End of an era, I hope Montreal still has an aerospace industry after all this.

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Old 6th Feb 2020, 14:24
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Originally Posted by Twitter View Post
The new rolling stock hasn’t made a good impression in German speaking Europe - lots of teething problems.
Neither has it in French-speaking Switzerland. Due for delivery in 2016, the final date is now expected 2021 - and access for wheelchairs has still not been fully resolved.
Laurence
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 14:33
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Originally Posted by Twitter View Post
The new rolling stock hasn’t made a good impression in German speaking Europe - lots of teething problems.
Nor the people of Toronto!
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...star_web_ymbii
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:02
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Originally Posted by admiral ackbar View Post
...weird stock class for founding Beaudoin family, invisible CEO...
Both are unknown to me. You mind to elaborate about stock class and "invisible" CEO?

Originally Posted by admiral ackbar View Post
Will now be Alstom-Bombardier or something similar.
I'd bet on Hitachi or Kawasaki.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:17
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Truly the end of an era but debt has sunk the company. Quebec already bailed them out once and it’s not happening again. They have no way to meet upcoming repayments without selling. Even then they might come up short. The PTB burned this company into the ground. Really sad for this once shining star of Canadian aerospace. What’s left? Floatplanes, Otters and Dash.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:29
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I'd bet on Hitachi or Kawasaki

Refer Post 3: Textron

IG
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:42
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Originally Posted by ProPax View Post
Both are unknown to me. You mind to elaborate about stock class and "invisible" CEO?


I'd bet on Hitachi or Kawasaki.
Most of the stuff I can finf is in french so not very useful here. Basically there are two classes of shares, one that is traded publicly and another, very small in number, that has superior voting rights and are owned in majoprity by the heirs of J-A Bombardier, the Beaudouin family. Gives them much more power than they should have.

As to the invisible CEO, he is compensated well above average (the previous CEO was the grandson of the founder and attended about 4 board meetings a year while pulling a multi-million dollar salary), gets billions from the government but is never around to answer tough questions when there are layoffs, etc. Company used to be admired by the people here but now that sympathy is gone. I have linked one example of egregious behaviour (not unique amongst CEOs granted) amongst many. This CEO was hailed as a saviour and an outsider but all he has done in the last few years is divest, divest, divest and collect bonuses. Don't need to be paid millions to do that!

https://igopp.org/en/cppib-backs-inv...are-structure/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bom...plan-1.5112398

This is a good recap of the whole ordeal for QC and CAN taxpayers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...lout-1.5453012


The PTB burned this company into the ground.
PTB?
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 15:57
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Originally Posted by admiral ackbar View Post
PTB?
Powers That Be?
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 20:40
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Originally Posted by moosepig View Post
Powers That Be?
Exactly, as in the jack wagon linked above. Hated by many Quebecers and vilified by many workers. Ruined the company while raking in millions. The company is unlikely to be a going concern in the near future but those in charge (PTB) already bailed in their golden parachutes. Wouldnít be surprised if they end up sticking it to the government too. Typical corporate malfeasance and ridiculously poor governance.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 21:11
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Originally Posted by l.garey View Post
Neither has it in French-speaking Switzerland. Due for delivery in 2016, the final date is now expected 2021 - and access for wheelchairs has still not been fully resolved.
Laurence
Damn same thing in Queensland australia. Looks like thier trains are shit

https://www.qt.com.au/news/queenslan...ts-ne/3359054/
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 21:37
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Thank you, Boeing, .... and America. 😏

​​​​​​https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...lout-1.5453012

Last edited by Old Dogs; 6th Feb 2020 at 21:52.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 23:59
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Hmmm, a 1.5 bill bailout to save the company from a rogue take over and massive layoffs and they vote themselves a 50 percent extra bonus and then lay off the workers anyway.
Then to top it, the government gives them another 372 mill.
The sheer arrogance of these people is shocking.
After reading the facts, I hope the company dies a quick death.
Perhaps they can go back to snow mobiles again and make a go of it.
Just wow
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 03:15
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Originally Posted by Fogliner View Post
Hmmm, a 1.5 bill bailout to save the company from a rogue take over and massive layoffs and they vote themselves a 50 percent extra bonus and then lay off the workers anyway.
Then to top it, the government gives them another 372 mill.
The sheer arrogance of these people is shocking.
After reading the facts, I hope the company dies a quick death.
Perhaps they can go back to snow mobiles again and make a go of it.
Just wow
Fog

Oh don't worry about the snowmobile division, Seadoo/personal watercraft division and motorcycle division all known as part of the BRP group, because they are doing very well... In fact they used to be part of the global company until the "family" bought them outright from the main company in a shady deal which is now fully controlled by the family and making money.

BTW, Bellemare the CEO, got a $26M bonus while asking for government help/subsidies to help them with their debts.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 06:25
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Originally Posted by Old Dogs View Post
Thank you, Boeing, .... and America. 😏

​​​​​​https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...lout-1.5453012
I donít blame the Americans and Boeing as much as I blame the upper management and officers of Bombardier. Sure the tariff issue played a part but the path was laid down way, way before that. Please look at all the facts my Canadian brother before pointing the finger at America and Boeing. Their action just hastened the inevitable demise.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 08:24
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Originally Posted by Old Dogs View Post
Thank you, Boeing, .... and America. 😏

​​​​​​https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...lout-1.5453012
Based on that article alone, I'd say, thank you, Quebec. If I understand it correctly, Quebec is so indignated by spending 1.3bln on the company when it was in trouble that they refuse to support it when it's on the brink of making billions on a successful if risky project. Whatever the margin notes are (CEO, bonuses, etc), it looks like an unprecedentedly obtuse move on their side. Killing a goose two days before it starts laying golden eggs. That's exactly what happened to Airbus, only France and Germany persevered and now they have a successful aircraft manufacturer.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 22:32
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Originally Posted by ProPax View Post
Based on that article alone, I'd say, thank you, Quebec. If I understand it correctly, Quebec is so indignated by spending 1.3bln on the company when it was in trouble that they refuse to support it when it's on the brink of making billions on a successful if risky project. Whatever the margin notes are (CEO, bonuses, etc), it looks like an unprecedentedly obtuse move on their side. Killing a goose two days before it starts laying golden eggs. That's exactly what happened to Airbus, only France and Germany persevered and now they have a successful aircraft manufacturer.
No doubt the management made a lot of mistakes, however, America, at Boeings request, implemented a 292% tariff on the C-Series.

That killed the project and forced the sale of the now Airbus 220.

Few products can survive a 292% tariff. 😏

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...st-bombardier/
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 22:40
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Originally Posted by Old Dogs View Post
No doubt the management made a lot of mistakes, however, America, at Boeings request, implemented a 292% tariff on the C-Series.

That killed the project and forced the sale of the now Airbus 220.

Few products can survive a 292% tariff. 😏
That tariff was overturned and removed well before deliveries were scheduled to start, and years before Bombardier gave the C-series to Airbus.
Sorry, but that tariff mess had minimal long term affect on Bombardier's failure.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 22:43
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
That tariff was overturned and removed well before deliveries were scheduled to start, and years before Bombardier gave the C-series to Airbus.
Sorry, but that tariff mess had minimal long term affect on Bombardier's failure.
With respect, sir, that is patently incorrect.

Pease read the attached Seattle Times article.
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