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LCY Operations

Old 29th Dec 2019, 09:03
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LCY Operations

Hello Fellow PPruners !

I am very interested to gather some information on London City operations: steep approach, at what weights can airplanes take-off and land there usually, in particular reg. large BizJets (up to BBJ's or ACJ's if applicable), all kind of tips and useful gouge on Runway Performance, i.e. what about wet or contaminated runway and its implication on Operations there ?

Thanks a lot !

Happy New Year !

Leo
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 10:30
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The largest biz-jets that currently operate from LCY are the Global Express series and Falcon 7X. The ACJ and BBJ arenít steep approach equipped, the only Airbus certified to operate in their is the BA A318 which was modified for steep approaches.

Weather can make a huge difference, low QNH, high temperatures and not much wind can really limit take off weights. Generally runway 09 is better than 27 as thereís less obstacles.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 12:39
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Many moons ago I was doing a feasbility study to launch a 2hr long commercial route into LCY with F70. We have found that the key limiting factor was wet runway takeoff, V1 was so low that with the required fuel load the remainng payload would have been limited to 25-30 pax on rainy days, which effectively killed the project. Interestingly another operator just recently launched the same route with E90.

Last edited by andrasz; 30th Dec 2019 at 07:56.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 13:30
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Originally Posted by Piece of Cake View Post
The largest biz-jets that currently operate from LCY are the Global Express series and Falcon 7X. The ACJ and BBJ arenít steep approach equipped, the only Airbus certified to operate in their is the BA A318 which was modified for steep approaches.
Don't forget that the C Series now the Airbus 220 can also operate out of LCY and IIRC can even go overseas from LCY.

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Old 29th Dec 2019, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Jet Jockey A4 View Post
Don't forget that the C Series now the Airbus 220 can also operate out of LCY and IIRC can even go overseas from LCY.
The Airbus A220-300 has demonstrated it can operate non-stop LCY-JFK with a full business class payload.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 21:56
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Originally Posted by twochai View Post
The Airbus A220-300 has demonstrated it can operate non-stop LCY-JFK with a full business class payload.
That's amazing!
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 02:50
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A G7500 flew non-stop LCY - LAX.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 07:12
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All the types, airline and business, that are approved for LCY are listed on their website.

https://www.londoncityairport.com/co...roved-aircraft

Many moons ago I was doing a feasibility study to launch a 2hr long commercial route into LCY with F70. We have found that the key limiting factor was wet runway takeoff, V1 was so low that with the required fuel load the remaining payload would have been limited to 25-30 pax on rainy days, which effectively killed the project. Interestingly another operator just recently launched the same route with E95.
Well Austrian did run a route of this length from Vienna for quite some time with the F70.

The E95 is not approved for LCY, only the E90. The same applies with the E75/E70. Reason is the slightly extended 75/95 versions are longer behind the main gear, which is an issue for tailstrikes when flaring on landing with the particular characteristics of the steep approach. Not by much but it becomes relevant.

For all that there's concern about the short TORA aircraft are commonly airborne well before the halfway point. Must be fun ...

Last edited by WHBM; 30th Dec 2019 at 07:22.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 07:56
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
The E95 is not approved for LCY, only the E90.
My mistake, op corrected.

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Old 30th Dec 2019, 10:11
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The Airbus A220-300 has demonstrated it can operate non-stop LCY-JFK with a full business class payload.
I think you mean the A220-100: the A220-300 is not certified for LCY ops.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 17:34
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Originally Posted by Torquelink View Post
I think you mean the A220-100: the A220-300 is not certified for LCY ops.
Indeed - and I think "full business class load" mentioned actually means around 30-40 pax.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 18:20
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Originally Posted by Lord Bracken View Post
Indeed - and I think "full business class load" mentioned actually means around 30-40 pax.
Variously reported as 40 or 42 pax, though a tad academic as there doesn't seem any likelihood of anyone wanting to operate a BCS1 on LCY-JFK.
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Old 30th Dec 2019, 21:33
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Angel B747-400 into LCY

Landed at LCY in the B747-400 simulator at max landing weight 285T with autobrakes MAX...VREF 153 kts...rate of descent 1400 feet/min...flare at 70 feet...stopped at last turn-off before the end of the runway.
Take-off was also very impressive. Queen of the skies!
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Old 31st Dec 2019, 06:16
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744IRE
But did you have it down before the lights?
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
744IRE
But did you have it down before the lights?
Nomad, having done this many times (legally) in the other 4 engined Queen of the Skies I'd say you'd better believe it! Indeed I doubt his approach left any wildlife alive that might have been disporting itself on the threshold, he'd have been max deflection fly-up at 300ft and the rubber laid from the start of the piano keys onwards.
I'd have loved - just loved to have seen/done that in the 747 sim!
I remember the excitement and sheer improbability of it working in the 146 the first time I was shown it!
I remember even more clearly the challenge of getting a 320 down there - so hats off to our 744 wheel above!
But of course with practice and a little unnecessary disrespect for your brakes the 146 would turn off midway with ease. Natch!
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 08:02
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I was on Heron Quays in 1987 when Capt Harry Gee landed a Dash 7 on the top of the dock to demo the STOL capability of the aircraft for the pending LCY
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 08:36
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
I was on Heron Quays in 1987 when Capt Harry Gee landed a Dash 7 on the top of the dock to demo the STOL capability of the aircraft for the pending LCY
Can you see yourself here ?

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Old 1st Jan 2020, 09:26
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Thanks WHBM - sadly no - I was I think in the same line as the cameraman, or just behind.
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 10:49
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One of the key drivers behind the whole Canary Wharf/London Docklands redevelopment was a UK bureaucrat, Reg Ward, who was appointed in charge of the London Docklands Redevelopment Corporation, which started from very small beginnings in the 1980s and ended up with what you see there today.

He had done his time in the RAF, where he was contemporary with … Harry Gee, who he talked into doing this flight, and the rest is history. No Reg, no London City. He met a banker along the way as well; something similar happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Ward
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Old 1st Jan 2020, 11:04
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LDDC The London Docklands Development Corporation, their HQ then was the old dock gate/customs? house near where Excel is IIRC.

I lived in west ferry road then watching all the development.
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