Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

PAL777 engine fire

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

PAL777 engine fire

Old 22nd Nov 2019, 14:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
PAL777 engine fire

Luckily they returned and safely landed in LAX
Bonzo777 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 14:21
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 18,206
https://news.sky.com/video/plane-wit...rport-11867073
NutLoose is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 14:21
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Bonzo777 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 15:02
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dorset,UK
Posts: 404
Didn't actually catch fire, did it?????

Last edited by Compass Call; 22nd Nov 2019 at 15:51.
Compass Call is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 15:12
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Florida
Posts: 110
That must be the definition of an overweight landing!
Lake1952 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 16:47
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The sky
Posts: 229
Gear seemed to be down a long time on departure?
Locked door is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 17:49
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Originally Posted by Locked door View Post
Gear seemed to be down a long time on departure?
Normal gear retraction is as soon as a known, stabilized, rate of climb is achieved. For non pilots that typically confirmed prior to 50' AGL. With an engine failure, unless the plane is very light, the ability of an airliner to accelerate to get rid of flaps (reducing drag) is much tougher. Depending upon weight it might not be possible with the gear down.

In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
misd-agin is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 18:04
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The sky
Posts: 229
You’re missing the point. On the video shot from a car the aircraft appears to be 500+ feet AGL on departure with the gear still down.
Locked door is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 18:08
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
Normal gear retraction is as soon as a known, stabilized, rate of climb is achieved. For non pilots that typically confirmed prior to 50' AGL. With an engine failure, unless the plane is very light, the ability of an airliner to accelerate to get rid of flaps (reducing drag) is much tougher. Depending upon weight it might not be possible with the gear down.

In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
What a very interesting post, sadly, as a B777 Captain I would disagree with most of it!!
woodpecker is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 19:32
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
Normal gear retraction is as soon as a known, stabilized, rate of climb is achieved. For non pilots that typically confirmed prior to 50' AGL. With an engine failure, unless the plane is very light, the ability of an airliner to accelerate to get rid of flaps (reducing drag) is much tougher. Depending upon weight it might not be possible with the gear down.

In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
Absolute Tosh!
srjumbo747 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 19:48
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,889
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
That's not a universal truth, as a quick look at the performance figures contained in the QRH for e.g; a 777 will reveal.

BTW I take it we think this is a series of surges, rather than a fire ( I think that's the point Compass Call is making).
wiggy is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 20:57
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Been around the block
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by woodpecker View Post
What a very interesting post, sadly, as a B777 Captain I would disagree with most of it!!
As a 767 Captain, I also agree with your disagreement of the student pilots post.
4runner is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 21:00
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Been around the block
Posts: 608


In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).[/QUOTE]

a large jet, isnít at landing configuration at takeoff. It also is above landing weight if going far enough to change a few time zones or the weather. Thanks for your input cadet.
4runner is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 22:26
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denver
Age: 53
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by 4runner View Post


In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).


a large jet, isnít at landing configuration at takeoff. It also is above landing weight if going far enough to change a few time zones or the weather. Thanks for your input cadet.
[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree with you, but I do think you might have misunderstood some of the original post. When he referred to being in the landing configuration after take off, I think he was referring to being on final after an immediate return due to an engine failure. At that point our procedure (A320) is to not extend the gear until we are on the slope, so he might have a point.
hans brinker is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 22:36
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Esher, Surrey
Posts: 465
Engine explodes in midair

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...ur-large-bangs
beamender99 is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 23:08
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: CYWH (Victoria)
Posts: 5,438
Yet again the media gets it wrong. Doesn’t the BBC have an Aviation Correspondent? The engine didn’t “explode” - it was a surge. Even the captain knew that - it was announced to the tower after the Mayday call.

See “PAL113 KLAX Engine Surge”:
http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

Last edited by India Four Two; 22nd Nov 2019 at 23:22.
India Four Two is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 01:38
  #17 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 64
Posts: 9,231
Even before the Mayday call, someone sees the event and calls it out on air. Well handled by all crew on board and on the ground. Media score Zero. Again. My concern is that this constant bad reporting leaves the reader/viewer with the exact opposite of what has happened, leaving people fearful when everything went according to procedure.

It may well be that, with aircraft problems being 'flavour of the year' there is nothing to hold them back.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 02:22
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 999
Flames were coming out of the tail pipe in short bursts which hardly counts as an engine on fire. Were the extinguishers even used or did the problem go away once the engine master was turned off and the fire button was pushed ?

The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
krismiler is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 03:48
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Flames were coming out of the tail pipe in short bursts which hardly counts as an engine on fire. Were the extinguishers even used or did the problem go away once the engine master was turned off and the fire button was pushed ?

The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
There is no reason to shut down the engine or use the fire extinguishers with a surging engine. They probably landed with the engine still running.

Lost in Saigon is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 04:08
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Asia
Age: 59
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.

The Philippines was upgraded to Cat 1 in 2014. IASA is focussed on aviation safety oversight. The rating is not affected by a single carrier incident.
bud leon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.