PAL777 engine fire
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Originally Posted by Locked door
Gear seemed to be down a long time on departure?
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
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Originally Posted by misd-agin
Normal gear retraction is as soon as a known, stabilized, rate of climb is achieved. For non pilots that typically confirmed prior to 50' AGL. With an engine failure, unless the plane is very light, the ability of an airliner to accelerate to get rid of flaps (reducing drag) is much tougher. Depending upon weight it might not be possible with the gear down.
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
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Originally Posted by misd-agin
Normal gear retraction is as soon as a known, stabilized, rate of climb is achieved. For non pilots that typically confirmed prior to 50' AGL. With an engine failure, unless the plane is very light, the ability of an airliner to accelerate to get rid of flaps (reducing drag) is much tougher. Depending upon weight it might not be possible with the gear down.
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
That's not a universal truth, as a quick look at the performance figures contained in the QRH for e.g; a 777 will reveal.BTW I take it we think this is a series of surges, rather than a fire ( I think that's the point Compass Call is making).
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Originally Posted by woodpecker
What a very interesting post, sadly, as a B777 Captain I would disagree with most of it!!
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In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).[/QUOTE]
a large jet, isn’t at landing configuration at takeoff. It also is above landing weight if going far enough to change a few time zones or the weather. Thanks for your input cadet.
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Originally Posted by 4runner
In landing configuration, at a heavy weight right after takeoff, airliners don't have enough power to fly level. This was a training event that was introduced to demonstrate that at heavy weights (ie immediate return scenario), even at max power you'd be unable to hold level flight while in landing configuration while single engine. Rule of thumb "no gear down until you're going downhill" (ie descent patth without level offs).
a large jet, isn’t at landing configuration at takeoff. It also is above landing weight if going far enough to change a few time zones or the weather. Thanks for your input cadet.
I don't disagree with you, but I do think you might have misunderstood some of the original post. When he referred to being in the landing configuration after take off, I think he was referring to being on final after an immediate return due to an engine failure. At that point our procedure (A320) is to not extend the gear until we are on the slope, so he might have a point.
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Yet again the media gets it wrong. Doesn’t the BBC have an Aviation Correspondent? The engine didn’t “explode” - it was a surge. Even the captain knew that - it was announced to the tower after the Mayday call.
See “PAL113 KLAX Engine Surge”:
http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
See “PAL113 KLAX Engine Surge”:
http://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php
Last edited by India Four Two; 22nd Nov 2019 at 22:22.
Paxing All Over The World
Even before the Mayday call, someone sees the event and calls it out on air. Well handled by all crew on board and on the ground. Media score Zero. Again. My concern is that this constant bad reporting leaves the reader/viewer with the exact opposite of what has happened, leaving people fearful when everything went according to procedure.
It may well be that, with aircraft problems being 'flavour of the year' there is nothing to hold them back.
It may well be that, with aircraft problems being 'flavour of the year' there is nothing to hold them back.
Flames were coming out of the tail pipe in short bursts which hardly counts as an engine on fire. Were the extinguishers even used or did the problem go away once the engine master was turned off and the fire button was pushed ?
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
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Originally Posted by krismiler
Flames were coming out of the tail pipe in short bursts which hardly counts as an engine on fire. Were the extinguishers even used or did the problem go away once the engine master was turned off and the fire button was pushed ?
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
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Originally Posted by krismiler
The Philippines has only recently been upgraded to CAT 1 by the FAA and with the flight being ETOPS, PAL must be hoping the blame get pinned on the engine manufacture rather than their maintenance.
The Philippines was upgraded to Cat 1 in 2014. IASA is focussed on aviation safety oversight. The rating is not affected by a single carrier incident.
