Easyjet A320 and KLM B737 collide at Schiphol
Drain Bamaged
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always found the 'one man push' procedure at Schiphol bizarre, single tug driver to do chocks, pins, pushback, etc etc...
Compared to the UK for example, where as a minimum you'll have a headset man, pushback driver, and a wing walker.
But hey ho, what do I know
Was at OSL not long ago and witnessed a single person tow the aircraft onto stand, chock it, put the bridge on, nip into the cockpit to do whatever brake riders do, come back down, and drive away in the tug. Impressive!
Compared to the UK for example, where as a minimum you'll have a headset man, pushback driver, and a wing walker.
But hey ho, what do I know
Was at OSL not long ago and witnessed a single person tow the aircraft onto stand, chock it, put the bridge on, nip into the cockpit to do whatever brake riders do, come back down, and drive away in the tug. Impressive!
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This industry operates at the edge of the safety margin entirely for profit or to satisfy the consumer by giving them ultra low cost flights. When will we realise aviation safety is absolutely compromised by a very unhealthy competition which now exists in this industry? We need to introduce a minimum cost per mile for flying with airlines competing not in terms of ticket prices but in terms of customer service and experience/comfort. The money should then be diverted to pay the staff better or simply hire more so the job can be done in a safer way. The regulators are asleep. Competition in aviation has reached a crisis point.
This industry operates at the edge of the safety margin entirely for profit or to satisfy the consumer by giving them ultra low cost flights. When will we realise aviation safety is absolutely compromised by a very unhealthy competition which now exists in this industry? We need to introduce a minimum cost per mile for flying with airlines competing not in terms of ticket prices but in terms of customer service and experience/comfort. The money should then be diverted to pay the staff better or simply hire more so the job can be done in a safer way. The regulators are asleep. Competition in aviation has reached a crisis point.
That being said, I'd consider the practice of making the tug driver responsible for everything rather daft. There should be at least one spotter (with one of those really noisy compressed air horns) to make sure they're clear.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
Age: 58
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This industry operates at the edge of the safety margin entirely for profit or to satisfy the consumer by giving them ultra low cost flights. When will we realise aviation safety is absolutely compromised by a very unhealthy competition which now exists in this industry? We need to introduce a minimum cost per mile for flying with airlines competing not in terms of ticket prices but in terms of customer service and experience/comfort. The money should then be diverted to pay the staff better or simply hire more so the job can be done in a safer way. The regulators are asleep. Competition in aviation has reached a crisis point.
Furthermore passengers are already charged a fixed costs to use airports and their facilities.
Moderator
Furthermore passengers are already charged a fixed costs to use airports and their facilities.
Furthermore passengers are already charged a fixed costs to use airports and their facilities.
Is it different on the other side of the pond?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
Age: 58
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but indeed you are right not all are the same
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
Age: 58
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair enough, as a pax, I would happily pay $0.25 for every ticket, if doing so greatly reduced the chance that I would have to be disembarked, and delayed, waiting for a replacement plane, once during my passenger career. Whoever pays to repair those two planes is going to pass that cost along to me anyway. I'd rather pay extra wing walkers, than sheet metal repair technicians! Costs can be cut too much.
Moderator
I was under the impression that the tug drivers and wing walkers are paid by the airline, not the airport
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Bucks
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which would of course explain why aviation has never been safer
That being said, I'd consider the practice of making the tug driver responsible for everything rather daft. There should be at least one spotter (with one of those really noisy compressed air horns) to make sure they're clear.
That being said, I'd consider the practice of making the tug driver responsible for everything rather daft. There should be at least one spotter (with one of those really noisy compressed air horns) to make sure they're clear.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The headset man (other genders are available) and driver are there, but airlines are starting to trial and use remote controlled Mototoks, which only require one person to operate.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Leeds, UK
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
actually there is a low cost solution to all these low speed taxying bumps at airports, which crop up on pprune regularly.
The AI in driverless cars is superb at spatial awareness and anticipation. I can't imagine Google would break a sweat turning some of their technology into having the CCTV that's watching aprons and taxiways into an alert system for an imminent collision. Any human watching the video had at least 5 seconds notice that a crunch was going to happen. Ditto AI. Then it would just need a link to ground radio to say something like "all ground aircraft stop now-collision imminent" and sorted for very few pennies.
G
The AI in driverless cars is superb at spatial awareness and anticipation. I can't imagine Google would break a sweat turning some of their technology into having the CCTV that's watching aprons and taxiways into an alert system for an imminent collision. Any human watching the video had at least 5 seconds notice that a crunch was going to happen. Ditto AI. Then it would just need a link to ground radio to say something like "all ground aircraft stop now-collision imminent" and sorted for very few pennies.
G
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Towbarless pushing, aka the lifting pushback trucks, only have a driver who does both the pushback and the talk out for engine start. This was also the case with both KLM and Easyjet in this incident.
So both pushbackdrivers would be monitoring an engine start as well. Also, the planes were almost directly behind each other, so it would be very hard to notice the other plane pushing back as well, as the fuselage will be blocking the pushbackdriver’s view.
de minimus non curat lex
Wow, being wrong on so many levels at the same time in one sentence.
The controller gave push back clearance to both aircraft. Apparently he did not realise that this Easyjet flight was departing from the D pier and not the H pier, where Easyjet normally operates from. Off course the pushback drivers could have still prevented if they had realised it, but to their defence, the view from the push back truck isn't that good.
The controller gave push back clearance to both aircraft. Apparently he did not realise that this Easyjet flight was departing from the D pier and not the H pier, where Easyjet normally operates from. Off course the pushback drivers could have still prevented if they had realised it, but to their defence, the view from the push back truck isn't that good.
I just wonder if the Crews had stated the gate/stand when requesting pushback, the position stated might have proved the necessary prompt to delay the ATC instruction to push? ATC will know the apron layout like the back of their hand.
Might improved SA of just where the stands are mitigate the threat when crews listen out on the frequency?
Easy to sit back in ones armchair and pontificate.
No doubt a new FCN has already been written....
Last edited by parkfell; 11th Jul 2019 at 11:58.
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So the 'Swiss cheese' strikes again.
I just wonder if the Crews had stated the gate/stand when requesting pushback, the position stated might have proved the necessary prompt to delay the ATC instruction to push? ATC will know the apron layout like the back of their hand.
Might improved SA of just where the stands are mitigate the threat when crews listen out on the frequency?
Easy to sit back in ones armchair and pontificate.
No doubt a new FCN has already been written....
Full ATC and visuals, search YouTube for “Easyjet A320 and KLM B738 collide at Amsterdam” by VASaviation.
Sorry, can’t post urls yet myself