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Transponder/GPS issues today

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Transponder/GPS issues today

Old 9th Jun 2019, 12:59
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swh

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Transponder/GPS issues today

Anyone know of a work around for the issues Rockwell Collins 737/757 transponders and GPS have started to exhibit today ?

What is the root cause ?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 14:30
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Reportedly also affects all CRJs and CSeries/A220s, which also carry Rockwell Collins kit.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 15:00
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I got the email but on VAC for a few days and no details, what's the issue?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 16:37
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Up on our board.....so it's a "source from another source" -

This is from another source:



From sources posted on public forum:
Just had a call with the Command Center: Below are notes from the Call.
United, Delta, Air Canada all report that their regional partners who fly CRJ type aircraft are also experiencing widespread issues. Currently we have not heard of any mainline aircraft being affected with the exception of United's 737-900.
WAAS and GPS appear to be up and running without issue.
Fort Bliss/ZFW/ZAB all have NOTAMs advising of GPS jamming today and the FAA has requested a stoppage of any jamming in the interim. The FAA has also contacted NORAD to see if they are engaged in any activity.
Different email...
Currently this is causing widespread delays across Mesa, Skywest and PSA and appears to be affecting CRJ aircraft only.
Republic, Piedmont, Envoy and Compass have not reported any issues.
More to follow.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 05:53
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I may be getting old and the brain getting a bot rusty but, I am sure I read an article about this issue within the last couple of months. I don't remember the details but I am sure it mentioned Rockwell taking pro-active measures and it may have had something to do dates, along the lines of the Y2K 'issue'.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 06:14
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I may be getting old and the brain getting a bot rusty but, I am sure I read an article about this issue within the last couple of months. I don't remember the details but I am sure it mentioned Rockwell taking pro-active measures and it may have had something to do dates, along the lines of the Y2K 'issue'.
The GPS date rollover was April 6, so I doubt that has anything to do with it
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 06:54
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swh

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FAA has issued a blanket waiver for all aircraft experiencing GPS\ADS issues today

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_othe...eDate=06/09/19ATCSCC AdvisoryATCSCC ADVZY 029 DCC 06/09/2019 GUIDANCE FOR ADSBMESSAGE:
EVENT TIME: 09/1230 - 10/0400Z
COMMAND CENTER HAS APPROVED BLANKET WAIVER FOR ALL FLIGHTS CURRENTLY
HAVING GPS/ADSB ISSUES WITH THEIR TRANSPONDERS. INDIVIDUAL WAIVER
REQUESTS TO THE COMMAND CENTER ARE NO LONGER NECESSARY. HOWEVER,
AFFECTED FLIGHTS SHOULD FILE FLIGHT PLANS VIA THE FOLLOWING
PARAMETERS:

YOU MUST FILE FL280 AND BELOW. YOU MUST FILE RNAV ROUTING AND IF YOU
ARE UNABLE,YOU MUST FILE VIA TRADITIONAL AIRWAYS AND/OR NAVAIDS.
THIS BLANKET APPROVAL IS VALID ONLY UNTIL JUNE 10, 0400Z. EFFECTIVE TIME:
091231 - 100430SIGNATURE:
19/06/09 12:31

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Old 10th Jun 2019, 07:32
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Originally Posted by swh View Post
FAA has issued a blanket waiver for all aircraft experiencing GPS\ADS issues today

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_othe...eDate=06/09/19ATCSCC AdvisoryATCSCC ADVZY 029 DCC 06/09/2019 GUIDANCE FOR ADSBMESSAGE:
EVENT TIME: 09/1230 - 10/0400Z
COMMAND CENTER HAS APPROVED BLANKET WAIVER FOR ALL FLIGHTS CURRENTLY
HAVING GPS/ADSB ISSUES WITH THEIR TRANSPONDERS. INDIVIDUAL WAIVER
REQUESTS TO THE COMMAND CENTER ARE NO LONGER NECESSARY. HOWEVER,
AFFECTED FLIGHTS SHOULD FILE FLIGHT PLANS VIA THE FOLLOWING
PARAMETERS:

YOU MUST FILE FL280 AND BELOW. YOU MUST FILE RNAV ROUTING AND IF YOU
ARE UNABLE,YOU MUST FILE VIA TRADITIONAL AIRWAYS AND/OR NAVAIDS.
THIS BLANKET APPROVAL IS VALID ONLY UNTIL JUNE 10, 0400Z. EFFECTIVE TIME:
091231 - 100430SIGNATURE:
19/06/09 12:31

That approval has expired, no?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 10:11
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Affecting Bombardier aircraft as well. According to Bombardier its to do with the June 9th GPS Satellite update.

They've suggested a work around involving powering up the aircraft with GNSS Breakers pulled, then resetting the breakers once everything else is running.........

No idea if that's gonna work.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 10:48
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A little more background on hackaday.com/2019/06/09/gps-and-ads-b-problems-cause-cancelled-flights/ of all places:

Something strange has been going on in the friendly skies over the last day or so. Flights are being canceled. Aircraft are grounded. Passengers are understandably upset. The core of the issue is GPS and ADS-B systems. The ADS-B system depends on GPS data to function properly, but over this weekend a problem with the quality of the GPS data has disrupted normal ADS-B features on some planes, leading to the cancellations.

WHAT IS ADS-B AND WHY IS IT HAVING TROUBLE?
Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) is a communication system used in aircraft worldwide. Planes transmit location, speed, flight number, and other information on 1090 MHz. This data is picked up by ground stations and eventually displayed on air traffic controller screens. Aircraft also receive this data from each other as part of the Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS).

ADS-B isnít a complex or encrypted signal. In fact, anyone with a cheap RTL-SDR can receive the signal. Aviation buffs know how cool it is to see a map of all the aircraft flying above your house. Plenty of hackers have worked on these systems, and weíve covered that here on Hackaday. In the USA, the FAA will effectively require all aircraft to carry ADS-B transponders by January 1st, 2020. So as you can imagine, most aircraft already have the systems installed.

The ADS-B system in a plane needs to get position data before it can transmit. These days, that data comes from a global satellite navigation system. In the USA, that means GPS. The GPS system is currently having some problems though. This is where Receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM) comes in. Safety-critical GPS systems (those in planes and ships) cross-check their current position. If GPS is sending degraded or incorrect data, it is sent to the FAA who displays it on their website. The non-precision approach current outage map is showing degraded service all over the US Eastern seaboard, as well as the North. The cause of this signal degradation is currently unknown.

WHAT HARDWARE IS AFFECTED?
GPS isnít down though ó you can walk outside with your cell phone to verify that. However, it is degraded. How a planeís GPS system reacts to that depends on the software built into the GPS receiver. If the system fails, the pilots will have to rely on older systems like VOR to navigate. But ADS-B will have even more problems. An aircraft ADS-B system needs position data to operate. If you canít transmit your position information, air traffic controllers need to rely on old fashioned radar to determine position. All of this adds up to a safety of flight problem, which means grounding the aircraft.

Digging through canceled flight lists, one can glean which aircraft are having issues. From the early reports, it seems like Bombardier CRJ 700 and 900 have problems. Folks on Airliners.net are speculating that any aircraft with Rockwell Collins flight management systems are having problems.

This is not a small issue, there are hundreds or thousands of canceled flights. The FAA set up a teleconference to access the issue. Since then, the FAA has issued a blanket waiver to all affected flights. They can fly, but only up to 28,000 feet.

This is a developing story, and weíll be keeping an eye on it. Seeing how the industry handles major problems is always educational, and there will be much to learn in the coming days.

Last edited by Euclideanplane; 10th Jun 2019 at 10:55. Reason: Adding actual quote
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 11:30
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And a comment from a Scott H. on the same site:

The airline I work for is having this issue. The story we’re getting is that at approximately 3:00z on 6/9/19, the WAAS system on all of the GPS satellites received a software upgrade and that the software upload was somehow corrupted. This means that aircraft equipped with the WAAS MMR’s (Multi mode receivers) manufactured by Rockwell Collins are unable to resolve the WAAS signal from the satellites, thus causing MMR and GPS failure messages in the aircraft. The aircraft equipped with the pre WAAS MMR’s are not affected. Our airline is working with Rockwell Collins, the aircraft manufacturer and the FAA to receive permission to return our aircraft back to the pre WAAS configuration until the WAAS systems on the satellite constellation are operating normally again.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 13:37
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Perhaps, I am old school, perhaps my airplane is old school, but in my younger years we had something called a compass.

And you know what?
There even was a guy that crossed the ocean with a "compass". => Lindberg in a canvas airframe without heater or aircon and I don't think he had a stewardess to keep him company either.

See where technology has brought us?

To fly? You need a pilot and an airplane. Every line of software is a line too many.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 13:49
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There even was a guy that crossed the ocean with a "compass". => Lindberg
There was even two "guys" who did it before, Alcock and Brown.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 13:57
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Originally Posted by Vilters View Post
There even was a guy that crossed the ocean with a "compass". => Lindberg in a canvas airframe without heater or aircon .
According to Wikipedia "Lindbergh navigated only by dead reckoning (he was not proficient at navigating by the sun and stars and he rejected radio navigation gear as heavy and unreliable)"
and he didn't know where the airfield was once he arrived at Paris.

So are you really sure about this "navigation by compass only" anecdote?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:13
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Originally Posted by Euclideanplane View Post
According to Wikipedia "Lindbergh navigated only by dead reckoning (he was not proficient at navigating by the sun and stars and he rejected radio navigation gear as heavy and unreliable)"
and he didn't know where the airfield was once he arrived at Paris.

So are you really sure about this "navigation by compass only" anecdote?
That reads exactly like dead reckoning using a compass to me.

Direction (compass) and speed X elapsed time plotted tells you (about) where you should be.

Having to find the airport at the end would be totally expected.
The compass was also usefull to point in correct direction
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:25
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Arrggghhhh.."Software update", should of known.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:41
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Originally Posted by MurphyWasRight View Post
That reads exactly like dead reckoning using a compass to me.
Indeed. I may have misread Vilters, who didn't actually say "only a compass". For dead reckoning you compute the wind triangle using a compass, additionally you need information about wind speed and true airspeed. Which the compass obviously does not provide.
Anyway, GPS provides heading information anyway, in addition to whatever else information you need, so I am not sure I see the point. You use whatever instruments available to tell you where your are and where you are headed.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:41
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Ded reckoning

Arghhhh! One of my pet hates -it's DED reckoning, 'Ded' being short for 'Deduced'
Pedantly yours...
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:50
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Originally Posted by Grummaniser View Post
Arghhhh! One of my pet hates -it's DED reckoning, 'Ded' being short for 'Deduced'
Pedantly yours...
That source of all error, Wikipedia, says "The term "dead reckoning" was not originally used to abbreviate "deduced reckoning," nor is it a misspelling of the term "ded reckoning." The use of "ded" or "deduced reckoning" appeared much later in history, no earlier than 1931; in contrast to "dead reckoning" appearing as early as 1613 in the Oxford English Dictionary. The original intention of "dead" in the term is not clear however. Whether it is used to convey "absolute" as in "dead ahead," reckoning using other objects that are "dead in the water," or using reckoning properly "youíre dead if you donít reckon right," is not known"

One might also instantiate "dead on", "dead heat", "dead drunk" in each of which the term 'dead' qualifies as 'absolutely'
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:58
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Originally Posted by Maninthebar View Post
That source of all error, Wikipedia, says "The term "dead reckoning" was not originally used to abbreviate "deduced reckoning," nor is it a misspelling of the term "ded reckoning." The use of "ded" or "deduced reckoning" appeared much later in history, no earlier than 1931; in contrast to "dead reckoning" appearing as early as 1613 in the Oxford English Dictionary. The original intention of "dead" in the term is not clear however. Whether it is used to convey "absolute" as in "dead ahead," reckoning using other objects that are "dead in the water," or using reckoning properly "youíre dead if you donít reckon right," is not known"

One might also instantiate "dead on", "dead heat", "dead drunk" in each of which the term 'dead' qualifies as 'absolutely'
Dead right...

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