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US warns airliners flying over Gulf of 'misidentification'

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US warns airliners flying over Gulf of 'misidentification'

Old 18th May 2019, 15:49
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US warns airliners flying over Gulf of 'misidentification'

This topic seems to have been picked up in some of the quality media. The following is an extract from Al Jazeera:-

"US diplomats warned commercial airliners flying over the wider Gulf of the risk of being "misidentified" amid heightened tensions between the United States and Iran.
The warning relayed by US diplomatic posts from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) underlined the risks the current tensions pose to a region crucial to global air travel."

As a SLF who regularly flies the length of the gulf this is a worrying development.
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Old 18th May 2019, 16:25
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Originally Posted by HowardB
As a SLF who regularly flies the length of the gulf this is a worrying development.
Indeed it would be but Iran has said there won't be a war. Nobody in the region is "big" enough.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ilian-aircraft
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Old 18th May 2019, 17:02
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Apparently this time around, it's not a reference to misidentification by the US.
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Old 18th May 2019, 17:24
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Apparently this time around, it's not a reference to misidentification by the US.
Well it wouldn't do to be shooting down the aircraft of your best clients and allies in the region.
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Old 18th May 2019, 18:21
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Apparently this time around, it's not a reference to misidentification by the US.
But the not-so-subtle threat is there, anyway. https://www.britannica.com/event/Iran-Air-flight-655
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Old 18th May 2019, 22:41
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Commercial aircraft flights should not operate in combat or potential combat zones. Flights should remain well outside the maximum range of missle threats in those zones. Since airlines don’t want their operations disrupted its almost inevitable we will see another tragedy. Most people would not walk in front of loaded weapons with operators on edge yet we will willing fly under the same conditions.
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Old 18th May 2019, 22:50
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well HOPEFULLY, the crew monitor 121.5, where any "unidentified" aircraft will be challenged by the Navy, heard it on a daily basis, usually, it was one of their own helicopters..but it does add to the daily routine having to listen out for these calls...
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Old 18th May 2019, 23:55
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Originally Posted by Takwis
But the not-so-subtle threat is there, anyway. https://www.britannica.com/event/Iran-Air-flight-655
Indeed. It's reasonable to suspect this "warning" is motivated by something other than sincere and innocent concern for the international flying public.
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Old 19th May 2019, 02:53
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Iran Air 655
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Old 19th May 2019, 03:04
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767
Commercial aircraft flights should not operate in combat or potential combat zones. Flights should remain well outside the maximum range of missle threats in those zones. Since airlines don’t want their operations disrupted its almost inevitable we will see another tragedy. Most people would not walk in front of loaded weapons with operators on edge yet we will willing fly under the same conditions.
all fine and dandy, im sure if a war breaks out over the gulf, it will be closed, in the meantime, if you have FR 24 or similar air traffic app, have a gander at what goes on over the Gulf traffic wise...bear in mind this place is ALWAYS a "potential combat zone"
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Old 19th May 2019, 05:36
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
all fine and dandy, im sure if a war breaks out over the gulf, it will be closed, in the meantime, if you have FR 24 or similar air traffic app, have a gander at what goes on over the Gulf traffic wise...bear in mind this place is ALWAYS a "potential combat zone"
Besides this, let's not forget Africa where you can find conflict in most countries (in varying decree).

Nowadays if you want to go somewhere, it's almost impossible to avoid some sort of tensionzone.
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Old 19th May 2019, 06:07
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
well HOPEFULLY, the crew monitor 121.5, where any "unidentified" aircraft will be challenged by the Navy, heard it on a daily basis, usually, it was one of their own helicopters..but it does add to the daily routine having to listen out for these calls...
Wasn't one of the things to come out of the Iran Air shootdown that the US continually called the crew several times but used groundspeed in their "unknown aircraft" call, so they felt it was not directed at them, even if they were monitoring Guard?
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Old 19th May 2019, 06:26
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So if/when the Gulf is closed, and Pakistan is closed, then how...how...do I navigate to the far east?
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Old 19th May 2019, 07:18
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If the powers that be can apparently recognise everyone with facial algorithms, de-crypt encrypted messages, then let us pray that they can identify an airliner.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:04
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Originally Posted by KRviator
Wasn't one of the things to come out of the Iran Air shootdown that the US continually called the crew several times but used groundspeed in their "unknown aircraft" call, so they felt it was not directed at them, even if they were monitoring Guard?
the main reason was the Americans were broadcasting on 243 (military guard HF)and not 121.5(civilian). Consequently, the Iranian civilian airliner wasn’t monitoring 253 and didn’t hear the calls.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:07
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253(military HF)
I think you mean 243 (military UHF)
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:56
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Originally Posted by 3Greens
The main reason was the Americans were broadcasting on 243 (military guard HF)and not 121.5(civilian). Consequently, the Iranian civilian airliner wasn’t monitoring 253 and didn’t hear the calls.
Well yes and no. Like most such events, it was a combination of circumstances.

The USS Vincennes made 10 attempts to contact IR655.

Seven of those attempts were on UHF (243.0 MHz), which the Iran Air couldn't receive as it didn't have UHF, and three were on VHF (121.5 MHz), which IR655 did receive but disregarded because it cited an unknown aircraft flying with a 50 kt speed difference (GS vs TAS) and failed to quote IR655's Mode A squawk, which would have unambiguously identified it.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:03
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
well HOPEFULLY, the crew monitor 121.5, where any "unidentified" aircraft will be challenged by the Navy, heard it on a daily basis, usually, it was one of their own helicopters..but it does add to the daily routine having to listen out for these calls...
Whilst also noting what else they said:

It also said aircraft could experience interference with navigation instruments and communications jamming “with little to no warning”.

No nav, no comms, lots of weaponry on hair trigger, what could possibly go wrong...

I suspect the idea is that now they've issued the warning if anything gets shot down it won't be their fault.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:25
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Let's remind ourselves, that historically only 2 nations have shot down commercial airliners in peace time. One of them has now issued a warning, it seems quite clear where that potential danger would come from. And it's not Iran.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:31
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Seven of those attempts were on UHF (243.0 MHz), which the Iran Air couldn't receive as it didn't have UHF, and three were on VHF (121.5 MHz), which IR655 did receive but disregarded because it cited an unknown aircraft flying with a 50 kt speed difference (GS vs TAS) and failed to quote IR655's Mode A squawk, which would have unambiguously identified it.
Or, to paraphrase, they didn't know what they were doing. "Attempts" that are impossible to receive don't really count, do they ?

The crew also stated they had no way of knowing it was a civilian airliner, despite it being in a civilian ait corridor, Amber 59. Now in every US warship at the time the quartermaster carried the current Official Airline Guide (OAG), principally to arrange tickets for crew members. The flights from Bandar Abbas to Dubal were straightforwardly listed in there. So the information of the flight time and route of the aircraft was all there on board their ship. Just nobody had thought to look.

I hope nowadays someone on board has the web address for Flight Radar 24.
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