Warning! Bureaucrats believe pilots spouses are terrorists!
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MJ - Ever had someone up on the jumpseat for a flight? It's actually a lot easier with someone behind you - no need to keep calling the cabin crew to go out for a slash or get the trays in - your very own doorman (person).
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extra people on flt deck = more hassle for opening/closing locked cockpit door for loo breaks, meals, etc
Obviously not a pilot are we otherwise you'd know the answer is usually:
extra people on flt deck = LESS (MUCH LESS) hassle for opening/closing locked cockpit door for loo breaks, meals, etc
Obviously not a pilot are we otherwise you'd know the answer is usually:
extra people on flt deck = LESS (MUCH LESS) hassle for opening/closing locked cockpit door for loo breaks, meals, etc
Join Date: Oct 1999
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This is a typical reaction of a bureaucracy with no answers, needing to be seen to being doing something. Even if the something is counterproductive and even stupid. As has been said above, a jumpseat occupant is a positive asset to security, unless the spouse is a terrorist. But if the spouse is a terrorist, chances are so is the pilot!
The facts don't matter too much to these people, they suffer from a "jobsworth" mentality. It is just unfortunate that they seem to permeate to positions with the power to instigate their stupid ideas without thought to the inconvenience of the masses.
Let us hope that the CAA have the sense to limit these restrictions to US bound flights only.
The facts don't matter too much to these people, they suffer from a "jobsworth" mentality. It is just unfortunate that they seem to permeate to positions with the power to instigate their stupid ideas without thought to the inconvenience of the masses.
Let us hope that the CAA have the sense to limit these restrictions to US bound flights only.
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An over reaction that will have no positive effect on safety! Once again we find one of our few remaining perks removed, directly affecting our quality of life. For once though the remedy is simple - Captains must now place an embargo on anyone travelling on the jumpseat (except where legally required to do so). This will cost companies money and once they put pressure on the CAA to change this ridiculous rule something will happen.
Just another number
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I recently took my nineteen-year-old son on a trip, and he spent the entire time on the flight deck. As it was a two-man sector, he was very useful as a doorman, to allow access to the cabin crew. The cabin crew received several favourable comments from the passengers, who were pleased to see that BA were now employing 'skymarshalls' (their words not mine) on the flight deck.
Airclues
Airclues
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Can't quite remember all the facts of the story now, but a few years back a nice sweet irish girl, married her handsome Middle Eastern boyfriend, aahhh.
He then boarded her, alone, on a flight back to his homeland to meet his parents.Her suitcase was packed with high explosive in a hidden compartment.
Could he have been your F/O ?? Is she OK on the J/S Skipper ??
He then boarded her, alone, on a flight back to his homeland to meet his parents.Her suitcase was packed with high explosive in a hidden compartment.
Could he have been your F/O ?? Is she OK on the J/S Skipper ??
Join Date: Sep 1999
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moleslayer:-
- he wasn't a pilot so no, he couldn't have been the FO
- if he had been a pilot, he would have been subjected to a few security checks
- the suitcase was detected prior to boarding
- further security procedures were implemented everywhere following that attempt
- even if she had boarded, with her suitcase, it would not have mattered a jot where she sat
Last edited by HugMonster; 5th Aug 2002 at 13:56.
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I think from now on that nobody travels on the flight deck on my flights. The company might well be interested in applying some pressure on the CAA if they find that they are suddenly finding it difficult to shift, for instance, engineers around the place. Better still. Line checks become a thing of the past! The whole thing is ridiculous and stinks of "Osama wins".
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HugMon
Reading between the lines here, I think Moley was being a bit 'Tongue-in-Cheek'. I doubt he is suggesting either of the two characters & the suitcase would make it onto the aircraft.
The thread is about relatives on the cockpit jump seat.What I see here is a suggestion that you may not know anything about your fellow flight deck companion, and innocently invite a less than desirable, unwittingly, onto the flight deck.
Reading between the lines here, I think Moley was being a bit 'Tongue-in-Cheek'. I doubt he is suggesting either of the two characters & the suitcase would make it onto the aircraft.
The thread is about relatives on the cockpit jump seat.What I see here is a suggestion that you may not know anything about your fellow flight deck companion, and innocently invite a less than desirable, unwittingly, onto the flight deck.
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You got it in one Roger Miller, the story was intended to point up the fact that we really know very little about our colleagues realatives !
Many of the posts so far are along the lines of "what a stupid regulation,my wifes not a terrorist"
Well yes, you obviously know that,but playing the "story line" again..........You're flying with that nice Irish/Scottish/English?F/O who asks for the J/S for Her/His boyfriend/girlfriend/husband etc.
Do you really know Who/What? they are ??
From now on I will refuse all J/S requests for relatives, from Capts,F/Os,Dispatchers et al.
Therefore the F/O has a right to expect none of my relatives are sitting behind him too.
Many of the posts so far are along the lines of "what a stupid regulation,my wifes not a terrorist"
Well yes, you obviously know that,but playing the "story line" again..........You're flying with that nice Irish/Scottish/English?F/O who asks for the J/S for Her/His boyfriend/girlfriend/husband etc.
Do you really know Who/What? they are ??
From now on I will refuse all J/S requests for relatives, from Capts,F/Os,Dispatchers et al.
Therefore the F/O has a right to expect none of my relatives are sitting behind him too.
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jumpseats
anyone remember the fedex pilot travelling on the jumpseat who used a hammer on the crew, had he passed a security check? from what i recall all 3 crew managed to overpower him and he's now doing time.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
My Two Pence worth,
My understanding is that NO ONE is allowed on the jumpseat unless they are CAA/DOT in the course of their duties or operational crew i.e. Training Capt on a Line Check. Even Company personnel are banned if they are not ON DUTY.
So if you're off duty you're more likely to hi-jack/crash the aircraft rather than when you're on duty and ALREADY at the controls.. that makes it all clear then.
As someone said, they have taken over the asylum
My understanding is that NO ONE is allowed on the jumpseat unless they are CAA/DOT in the course of their duties or operational crew i.e. Training Capt on a Line Check. Even Company personnel are banned if they are not ON DUTY.
So if you're off duty you're more likely to hi-jack/crash the aircraft rather than when you're on duty and ALREADY at the controls.. that makes it all clear then.
As someone said, they have taken over the asylum
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Canberra - yes I do! And after managing to overpower their deranged colleague AND land the aircraft whilst being severely incapacitated and avert a major human catastrophy, the crew (well, certainly the the captain and F/O) are no longer flying becasue of their injuries.
As a non-employee pax, I've had the pleasure of several jump seat flights courtesy of the Captain and because I have a friend who works for the airline, but, IMHO, to be denied this pleasure in future seems a small price to pay for increased peace of mind for all of us, crew and pax alike.
As a non-employee pax, I've had the pleasure of several jump seat flights courtesy of the Captain and because I have a friend who works for the airline, but, IMHO, to be denied this pleasure in future seems a small price to pay for increased peace of mind for all of us, crew and pax alike.
Sims Fly Virtually
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I'm an "ex- UK airline employee" and now a holder of a "family pass" on an American airline. Of course, as I have now been living in the Mid-East for 15 years, I'm pretty suspect, and I wouldn't blame anyone not wanting me near the flight deck of a PAX aircraft
(Fortunately, there's a few pilots still around who disagree with that theory
Seriously, I agree that if I had been jump seating, there might have been a shade more chance of survival on the "9/11" flights)
(Fortunately, there's a few pilots still around who disagree with that theory
Seriously, I agree that if I had been jump seating, there might have been a shade more chance of survival on the "9/11" flights)
Sims Fly Virtually
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This prompts me to admit to a very serious mistake that I recently made on a flight back to "Blighty" on vacation.
My usual "carry-on bag" is my lap-top bag, and I had this in my posession for a 2-sector flight to UK. In addition to being baggage screened twice (by X-ray) at my airport of departure and again at the transit airport, I was somewhat concerned several days after my arrival in UK to find a "Stanley Knife" (aka Box Cutter?), bought a few weeks ago and forgotten, in one of the pockets of the lap-top bag
This was one of the"disposable" ones, so all plastic apart from the blade itself, and in a bag with a computer and lots of cables, power bricks and other "radar clutter", so I expect quite difficult to spot on X-ray, but certainly we are looking at a much more worrying hole in security than the pilot's wife or Cabin Crew's parent :o
My usual "carry-on bag" is my lap-top bag, and I had this in my posession for a 2-sector flight to UK. In addition to being baggage screened twice (by X-ray) at my airport of departure and again at the transit airport, I was somewhat concerned several days after my arrival in UK to find a "Stanley Knife" (aka Box Cutter?), bought a few weeks ago and forgotten, in one of the pockets of the lap-top bag
This was one of the"disposable" ones, so all plastic apart from the blade itself, and in a bag with a computer and lots of cables, power bricks and other "radar clutter", so I expect quite difficult to spot on X-ray, but certainly we are looking at a much more worrying hole in security than the pilot's wife or Cabin Crew's parent :o
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Family members and most other non-pilots have been banned from the airline cockpit in the U.S. for almost thirty years now without too much ill effect.
The last thing you need in a critical situation is someone's wife screaming bloody murder all the way down as with QF1 at BKK.
After jumpseat involment in the 911 attacks most countries will probably get more serious about cockpit security as the U.S.has. It's not the Love Boat anymore, I'm afraid...
The last thing you need in a critical situation is someone's wife screaming bloody murder all the way down as with QF1 at BKK.
After jumpseat involment in the 911 attacks most countries will probably get more serious about cockpit security as the U.S.has. It's not the Love Boat anymore, I'm afraid...
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Err. Have I missed something here? Jumpseat involvement with the11/9 attacks?
Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the security measures which are now being imposed on the world such as locked flight deck doors did not stop the 11/9 terrorist attacks.
When will the authorities get round to just not letting these people on aircraft? And letting the innocents get on with their lives unencumbered by pointless regulations.
The technology already exists to stop terrorists and other troublemakers boarding aircraft. Why not use it?
If we start introducing pointless rules which inconvenience everyone but the baddies, then the baddies have won.
Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the security measures which are now being imposed on the world such as locked flight deck doors did not stop the 11/9 terrorist attacks.
When will the authorities get round to just not letting these people on aircraft? And letting the innocents get on with their lives unencumbered by pointless regulations.
The technology already exists to stop terrorists and other troublemakers boarding aircraft. Why not use it?
If we start introducing pointless rules which inconvenience everyone but the baddies, then the baddies have won.