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Retro 747 BOAC

Old 22nd Feb 2019, 12:53
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
Retro BOAC 747 routes

The kangaroo route was a favourite. It would be a three-week round trip from London to the Middle East – Rome, Bahrain or Tehran – then Bombay, Hong Kong, Singapore or Bangkok before on to Sydney or Melbourne "and sometimes Perth and Darwin" and vice versa.

Working positions on the 747 worked like this. Note this was before equality for women.

Cabin Service Director (always a male) in charge of the aircraft.
Purser First Class (male) in charge up front.
Purser Economy (male in charge 'down the back'
A bird (female) slaved up front and did the PA's.
B bird (female) looked after mums and babies.
C & D (either male or female) worked down the back.
Lounge steward (male) worked up front and looked after the lounge and flight deck.
Steward 1 (male) looked after and cooked the food up front.
Steward 2 (male) looked after and cooked the food down the back.
Bar 'tarts' 1 2 3 & 4 (male or female) worked in the 4 positions down the back selling drinks and duty frees along with renting headsets.

In those days there wasn't club or super club class and first class had 27 or 36 seats. Promotion was usually 'dead man's shoes' and took about 6 years to get from Steward 2 to Steward 1 and another 6 to make Purser.



A Typical 3 week trip from a BOAC steward's diary.

22 Dec 1973 Pax QF760 B707 LHR-ATH-TEH- DEL
23 Dec Asleep
24 Dec Taxi to Agra visit Taj Mahal. Evening Xmas room party with BOAC VC10 crew in the Oberoi plus we invite the Lufthansa 707 crew down the hall to join us for carol singing.Their incredibly young Captain leads them in 'Stille Nacht' (Silent Night) - puts me in mind of the Xmas day truce in WW1
25 Dec The flight we are due to operate diverts to Dum Dum due fog at Delhi airport, we remain in hotel with Xmas lunch provided by BOAC Catering. We are now OFF-SCHEDULE
26 Dec We are told to operate BA812 to HKG. The crew who should have taken that flight are not best pleased as they now have to stay in Delhi OFF-SCHEDULE
27 Dec Evening we Pax on Cathay Convair 880 HKG-KUL-Djakarta-PER.
28 Dec Asleep in the Parmelia. Evening room party plus the Cathay crew
29 Dec PM operate to SYD via MEL (bad turbulence)
30 Dec Bondi
31 Dec Bondi New Years Party on beach
1 Jan 1974 Bondi
2 Jan Bondi Visit Rose Bay and marvel that QF still operate Flying Boats from there (to Lord Howe island?)
3 Jan Operate SYD-HKG
4 Jan Evening operate HKG-BKK
5 Jan R&R in BKK
6 Jan evening operate to BAH
7 Jan Gulf Hotel on standby for diverted flight - no go
8 Jan Due to pax back to LHR on BA743 - but off-loaded so back to the hotel
9 Jan evening repatriation flight to UK on QF Jumbo, but in-flight engine shut down (my second such experience in two months with P&W JT9Ds) and we land in Vienna
10 Jan Lifted back to Blighty on BEA Trident 2 - trip over. £££allowances good

So there you have it -20 days at sea with just 5 flights operated plus 4 pax trips,
but that's how it often was - over forty years ago.

Regarding the upstairs lounge he recalls looking after Sir David Frost back in the days when he commuted to New York for ''that was the week that was''
All he wanted was a plate of smoked salmon and to curl up and go to sleep. On landing he always had strong coffee and orange juice.
As a matter of interest was the level of deadheading common throughout the network or only certain routes? And what proportion of time was spent off-schedule? I presume that a lot positioning was required to cope with diversions and delays which were probably more common back then.

Also roughly how many nights away from home did cabin crew spend each year in thew 70s. I suspect that crews don't spend any longer away these days but fly many more productive hours.

Also a question for BEA (Back Every Night) crews. Looking at the schedules there appears to be far less overnighting at back stations back then. Did BEA cabin crews spend many nights away. (I believe that pilots flying Internal German Services would have stayed away more but most of the CC were locals.)
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 16:13
  #42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Peter47 View Post
As a matter of interest was the level of deadheading common throughout the network or only certain routes? And what proportion of time was spent off-schedule? I presume that a lot positioning was required to cope with diversions and delays which were probably more common back then.

Also roughly how many nights away from home did cabin crew spend each year in thew 70s. I suspect that crews don't spend any longer away these days but fly many more productive hours.

Also a question for BEA (Back Every Night) crews. Looking at the schedules there appears to be far less overnighting at back stations back then. Did BEA cabin crews spend many nights away. (I believe that pilots flying Internal German Services would have stayed away more but most of the CC were locals.)


Another memory of early BOAC 747 -136 introduction. The short Conversion course necessary to get the aircraft into service promptly. A very "need to know" tech course, compared to my previous VC10 course, after which I reckon I could build one. ie The 747 has four engines, they're under the wing, started like this ,stopped like this , if it catches fire do this....end of.
Base training at Shannon, no ZFT Sims. 21 landings, including a run over the sea off, and below, the Cliffs of Moher.
One four sector Route Training trip (JFK BDA JFK, Route Check back to LHR) and on the next trip, supervising another pilot on his first trip. We were either all aces, or perhaps more likely, the 747 was so so easy to operate!
Although, for the first year or so we became very adept at engine out landings due to the ongoing JT9 surge problems.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 16:35
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Was that run over the sea below the height of the Cliffs of Moher with Bob Knights by any chance?
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 17:11
  #44 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aloominumtoob View Post
Only matelots fly a "Union Jack." (On the jackstaff at the pointy end.) Us others have a Union Flag.
alt
Semantic change (also semantic shift, semantic progression, semantic development, or semantic drift) is a form of language change regarding the evolution of word usage—usually to the point that the modern meaning is radically different from the original usage. In diachronic (or historical) linguistics, semantic change is a change in one of the meanings of a word. Every word has a variety of senses and connotations, which can be added, removed, or altered over time, often to the extent that cognates across space and time have very different meanings. The study of semantic change can be seen as part of etymology, onomasiology, semasiology, and semantics.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 18:20
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the A319 is the next one to get the retro livery, and in the Red Square BEA colors: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...retroj-456026/
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 18:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MichaelKPIT View Post
Looks like the A319 is the next one to get the retro livery, and in the Red Square BEA colors: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...retroj-456026/
Should be rolled out in the next week or so. I'm really looking forward to this one, too.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 19:48
  #47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
Was that run over the sea below the height of the Cliffs of Moher with Bob Knights by any chance?

Yes he was quite good at it, he had lots of practice during the Dambuster raids!!
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:03
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Great to see these anniversary colour schemes, but the RB211 powered 747 makes it even better
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:04
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Totally retro :



With thanks to Niall Moran
That looks nice. My late father was a flight engineer on the 136's when they were painted like that. To be honest though he always prefered the 707, to the point where he eventually bid back to the -336. Small fleets in big airlines, the best place to be.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:11
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Should be rolled out in the next week or so. I'm really looking forward to this one, too.
Unfortunately without red upper wing surfaces. Not sure about the lower surfaces. Something to do with reflectivity.......

Still, the side view will look great!
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:15
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Peter47 View Post
As a matter of interest was the level of deadheading common throughout the network or only certain routes? And what proportion of time was spent off-schedule? I presume that a lot positioning was required to cope with diversions and delays which were probably more common back then.

Also roughly how many nights away from home did cabin crew spend each year in thew 70s. I suspect that crews don't spend any longer away these days but fly many more productive hours.

Also a question for BEA (Back Every Night) crews. Looking at the schedules there appears to be far less overnighting at back stations back then. Did BEA cabin crews spend many nights away. (I believe that pilots flying Internal German Services would have stayed away more but most of the CC were locals.)
Internal German Services pilots operated a flight from LHR into Germany, for instance Duesseldorf, the flight then continued as a IGS flight to Berlin. Same on return to LHR after flying Internal German Services for a week. The pilots loved their " German Tour ", accomodation was excellent, and the allowances plenty. Some were so lucky to have private accomodation in Berlin, the so called " Home Sleepers ". Those were the good old days. IGS cabin crew were all based in Berlin with a German contract,
i.e. cabin crew inbound from LHR would nightstop at the first German destination, then IGS cabin crew took over. Vice versa. This rule was very strictly observed.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:18
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Flew back in this from JFK on Tuesday evening. There was a lot of BA staff coming for a look before they flew back before our crew pitched up.

I think it looks great
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 20:28
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by eckhard View Post
Unfortunately without red upper wing surfaces. Not sure about the lower surfaces. Something to do with reflectivity.......

Still, the side view will look great!

Yes, that's a shame, but Flight is reporting that the undersides of the wings will indeed be red, so the photographers will be pleased, if not the passengers.
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Old 22nd Feb 2019, 21:25
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Should be rolled out in the next week or so. I'm really looking forward to this one, too.
Me too. But I think my favorite is going to be the Landor 747. To me it always looked like that aircraft was designed specifically to wear those colours!
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 14:12
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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RE my anecdotes in this thread about BOAC/BA crew life and lay-overs down route - may I extend the courtesy to Ian Burgess-Barber for his kindness in allowing his memories to be published here.
Best R.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 20:04
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEA 71 View Post
Internal German Services pilots operated a flight from LHR into Germany, for instance Duesseldorf, the flight then continued as a IGS flight to Berlin. Same on return to LHR after flying Internal German Services for a week..
I believed that many of the pilots on the IGS were from Manchester base. The Super One-Elevens which operated the flights there for their last quarter century, which pretty much aligned with the aircraft's total lifespan with BEA and BA, were based at Manchester, but almost half the aircraft's flying hours were spent over in Germany. Towards the end of the IGS a small group of BA HS748s was set up there as well, to get some minor routes going; presumably these would have Glasgow base crews.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 20:01
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For the last few years, 1-11’s did shuttle back up at LHR. A lucrative gig. And LHR 737 did IGS with ATP’s doing whatever they did. The 0545 something while the 737 guys were stumbling home from George’s Bar. Reunification ruined it but per diem would have achieved the same thing. Now what about the SYD posting?

Last edited by bunk exceeder; 27th Feb 2019 at 04:22.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 20:19
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And a CSD once told me about a BOAC trip on, I can’t remember, either the 707 or VC-10 which was an around the world job. West through LAX, HNL, Fiji for quite some time, and AKL, SYD, whatever. Lasted about a month. And known as trip 503 or something, which only matters because she referred to the “503 divorce” when people had to split up at the end of those trips having become, well, familiar. I noticed the “503 divorce” thing mentioned a few times once I knew what it was.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 11:32
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I believed that many of the pilots on the IGS were from Manchester base. The Super One-Elevens which operated the flights there for their last quarter century, which pretty much aligned with the aircraft's total lifespan with BEA and BA, were based at Manchester, but almost half the aircraft's flying hours were spent over in Germany. Towards the end of the IGS a small group of BA HS748s was set up there as well, to get some minor routes going; presumably these would have Glasgow base crews.
You are absolutely right. Most of the pilots used to fly Viscount before converting on to Super-One-Eleven- same, at a later date, on to B 737. Those feeding into IGS always came from LHR, never from Manchester. Which does not mean crew weren´t based there. BAe 748 and ATP pilots were all from Highlands Division, they were feeding in via Bremen, Hanover, and Muenster/Osnabrueck, same going back. At the latter it also meant a aircraft change, a inbound aircraft coming from maintenance at Glasgow, the outbound aircraft going for maintenance at GLA. Both flights operated via Manchester. There was a cabin crew change at Muenster/Osnabrueck, the routing for the flight was Berlin-Muenster/Osnabrueck- Manchester-Glasgow, v.v. Every Sunday afternoon. The flight via Hanover was at times used for connections via MAN,
i.e. operating Berlin-Hanover-Manchester, then onto a 747 Service to JFK. The first two sectors took almost as long as the flight to JFK.

The reason, why BA introduced turboprops, was capacity on the Berlin-Muenster/Osnabrueck flights. With the introduction of B 737 on IGS, it was impossible to fill the aircraft and make a profit. As there was no other aircraft available to meet the demand, Highland´s 748s were choosen, later ATP. The alternative would have been to drop the service. Ironically the IGS flights had to be given up after re-unification, at a time, when the route was profitable. With 64 seats the ATP was the perfect aircraft for these routes.

The One-Eleven was operated for some more years, the last one I saw, was at Leipzig in September 1990, when it was flying the last trade fair flights.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 23:43
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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IGS Services - BAe 748 and ATP. Bottom right photo shows the Sunday aircraft change, inbound GLA-MAN-FMO and outbound FMO-MAN-GLA aircraft.
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