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Wonderful JU 52 about to be grounded .... by LH‘s saving frenzy?

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Wonderful JU 52 about to be grounded .... by LH‘s saving frenzy?

Old 22nd Jan 2019, 21:58
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by BRE View Post
HB-HOT had a lot of corrosion and fatigue issues and non-conforming repairs, so Ju-Air have their homework cut out for them and hope to be back this summer. D-AQUI was probably in a better state, so I doubt this was the reason, even if learnings from HB-HOT may have prompted a few additional checks and repairs.

It is true that if there was a crash, it would reflect on LH, but I doubt that this was the reason for their decision.
HB-HOT probably got this corrosion while doing a trip to the US and back, at least that is the explanation Ju Air have. The other two have been examined now and found clean according to a comment Ju Air made very recently. The interim report by the Swiss TSB points out that they are not suspecting the corrosion nor what they called irregular repairs to have anything to do with the crash. Local reaction by people who know the inner working of JU Air suggest that the report goes way over the top and simply shows that the investigators have preciously few insight in what it takes to remain a fleet of 80 year old airplanes.

HB-HOY which was stored at Mönchenglattbach is totally free of these issues as it underwent a complete overhaul a few years ago and will be re-activated to replace HB-HOT.

The question whether they will restart operation next spring will depend how much the local authorities will continue their support for this fleet or be scared into submission by their lawyers, fearing retribution. The ressourcefulness of JU Air's leadership should however not be underestimated.

D-AQUI is a very different airplane and has no such issues. However, it was grounded in 2018 due to damage to an engine mount discovered in 2018 during maintenance. It is powered by Pratt and Withney engines.

Currently it appears that most of the previously engaged sponsors are pulling out of such projects, LH just being one. Breitling dropped the Connie and almost all their aviation assetts and it appears they are trying to de-invest themselfs of the aviation image they had (which imho is close to commercial suicide but time will tell). While many folks were saying that the Connie would die if Breitling dropped them, they keep finding new sponsors who keep them going, even though they have massive problems getting it back into the air. I sincerely hope that in Germany there will be enough supporters of D-AQUI to rise money to keep her going. In comparison to the Connie projects e.t.c the JU should be in a much more affordable league financially.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 21:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Reply to ATC watcher
... the Connie fiasco ( to finish it to make it airworthy for EASA would have cost more than what was spent already ) has shaken the tree . Even finished it would have been extremely expensive to fly it.
Video here of Lufthansa's Lockheed Super Star restoration..lots of money spent
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 06:57
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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make it airworthy for EASA
As it falls under the category of "historic aircraft" (at that time "Annex II"), it would have been german LBA, not EASA to deal with it. Just like D-AQUI, which is not under EASA responsibility.
The exact problem was the plan to make it airworthy for "commercial air transport", which is much more complex than having an experimental certification.

Another issue of course was the actual condition of the airframe, which was significantly worse than expected after the first view.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:00
  #24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Retired DC9 driver View Post
Reply to ATC watcher
Video here of Lufthansa's Lockheed Super Star restoration..lots of money spent
Super Video thank you ! and I heard the actual situation ( as of Sept 2018) the aircraft is far most advanced and was almost ready , pulling the plug after so much efforts is extremely painful for all those that worked on it, especially the volunteers..

@volume :
[...]not EASA to deal with it . The exact problem was the plan to make it airworthy for "commercial air transport", which is much more complex than having an experimental certification
thanks for the EASA correction , although I am not the only one to have this belief ( see above video 23:10) Many here do not understand why they could not let it on N registration and fly it like they do with US old timers , like the B17 and the ford Trimotor of Oshkosh ..who do carry pax around in the same way that D-AQUI was doing..... Also wanting to "electronize" raised costs and complexity. I believe ..

..
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 08:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Pretty much fits into Germany's overall policy of ridding itself of any defining, characteristic traits and elements, and transitioning to some undefined crowd, which is perceived as being particularly "European" or "Globalist".
Pretty much true, but with the exemption of the infamous 12 years, which apparently labels every German as guilty. Doesn´t work very well with the mostly anti-jewish "new Germans" who flood our streets these days, though.

But btc, I don´t think Spohr and his board do feel anything like people that care about aviation and its heritage. They are dissolving the brand Lufthansa, I guess it won´t mean anything any more in a few years and thus the heritage bird is an unwanted expense. Claims have been made by board members, that they feel underpaid, probably some stock holder with a say told them to get more profitable..

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Old 28th Jan 2019, 09:47
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The Super Star was meant to get a new glass cockpit, C-130J-style, in order to cover unrestricted transatlantic commercial passenger ops (with some fancy VIP cabin...).
BUT that would have made some lengthy flight test and recertification necessary the FAA had advised. And this drove cost through the roof. It's said that, already being in the triple digit millions, doubling the cost might not have been enough to bring it back to flying. This project was just crazy to begin with the more get's known today.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 10:53
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn´t work very well with the mostly anti-jewish "new Germans" who flood our streets these days,
Dón´t overestimate those peoples ability to diferetiate... They are just anti-anything-different, no matter whether faith, origin, color of skin, sexual orientation. Of course it is easier to be against the usual subjects their grandfathers were already against...

This project was just crazy to begin with the more get's known today.
Depends how this decision was driven. Most probably some LHT experts would have really learned something during this exercise, which may have developed a completely new business of vintage-vip-aircraft restoration.
So if everybody would have been aware of the gigantic workload associated with this project, it would have been fine. As JFK said: We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win...
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 23:26
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Just found this. Very sad. I made five flights on D-AQUI in 2014 & 2015 and was due to make a sixth in September 2015, which was cancelled when they grounded it to sort out the cracked stringers.

The issues with the Connie were clearly identified back in 2014. I flew D-AQUI from Mainz to Hamburg and talked with the Lufthansa air crew volunteers handling check in while we were waiting for it to be turned round and refueled. At that point they felt the money had run out and the whole project was going nowhere.

Anyway, I'm still left with great memories of -

One-hour night flight out of Hamburg;

Mainz-Hamburg with an overflight of Wunstorf and what the Captain described as 'orientation turns' over two small towns enroute. In my flying days we called them 'beat ups'. On that trip we flew VFR under a fairly low cloud base through shallow valleys and at one point round a row of wind turbines on a ridge. The most amusing part was being cut up by a Cessna 172 (I've got it on video) as we began to turn finals for Hamburg. He landed ahead of us on the grass left of runway 05, cut across and went down the taxiway;

Leipzig into Siegerland for an airshow. We flew in on Friday. I stayed in a local town and got a lift in next morning with some of the visiting pilots before flying Siegerland to Frankfurt-Egelsbach with an Me108/Nord 2002 flying on our port rear for the final 20 minutes or so;

And finally Cologne-Bremen.

The people involved in the Ju52 operation were 100% dedicated it. The crews took great pride in, and no payment for, their involvement with Tante Ju and it was an honour to fly with them.

Last edited by flightprep; 14th Mar 2019 at 23:33. Reason: typo
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 13:30
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by flightprep View Post
Just found this. Very sad. I made five flights on D-AQUI in 2014 & 2015 and was due to make a sixth in September 2015, which was cancelled when they grounded it to sort out the cracked stringers.

The issues with the Connie were clearly identified back in 2014. I flew D-AQUI from Mainz to Hamburg and talked with the Lufthansa air crew volunteers handling check in while we were waiting for it to be turned round and refueled. At that point they felt the money had run out and the whole project was going nowhere.

Anyway, I'm still left with great memories of -

One-hour night flight out of Hamburg;

Mainz-Hamburg with an overflight of Wunstorf and what the Captain described as 'orientation turns' over two small towns enroute. In my flying days we called them 'beat ups'. On that trip we flew VFR under a fairly low cloud base through shallow valleys and at one point round a row of wind turbines on a ridge. The most amusing part was being cut up by a Cessna 172 (I've got it on video) as we began to turn finals for Hamburg. He landed ahead of us on the grass left of runway 05, cut across and went down the taxiway;

Leipzig into Siegerland for an airshow. We flew in on Friday. I stayed in a local town and got a lift in next morning with some of the visiting pilots before flying Siegerland to Frankfurt-Egelsbach with an Me108/Nord 2002 flying on our port rear for the final 20 minutes or so;

And finally Cologne-Bremen.

The people involved in the Ju52 operation were 100% dedicated it. The crews took great pride in, and no payment for, their involvement with Tante Ju and it was an honour to fly with them.
cut up by a cessna 172??? What is that? And whats a beat up?
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 15:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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If you are travelling along the autobahn approaching an exit but you intend to continue, when you are overtaken by another vehicle which cuts across in front of you and takes the exit = cut-up
Not a pilot but always understood 'beat up' to be a low pass to impress/please ground-based observers
DaveD
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 04:30
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by daved123 View Post
If you are travelling along the autobahn approaching an exit but you intend to continue, when you are overtaken by another vehicle which cuts across in front of you and takes the exit = cut-up
Not a pilot but always understood 'beat up' to be a low pass to impress/please ground-based observers
DaveD
thx daved. Got it. Sometimes a bit odd, simply translating german words into English, instead of using the applicable english term. English native speakers would have to ask for elaboration. No problem, as long as all are willing to communicate.
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