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Germania in financial difficulties

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Germania in financial difficulties

Old 6th Feb 2019, 07:16
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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SaulGoodman

unless you had to pay for your full training and did not get paid for the first 6 months your comment is completely useless...
It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route? Your comment is just as useless!
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 07:20
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe useless was the wrong choice of wording. However, your situation back in the 60ís has nothing to do with the t&cís in germania. You just used it for talking down younger generations.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 08:32
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post

It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route?
Yes, in a way one is. Forced. With ratings that last one year, with 50-60-70.000€ financed etc. Anyone who takes that route must know that they are undermining the T&Cs of the very jobs they long for after a joint like ST, though. In that way, its not bad that they are gone. OTOH they had just absorbed a lot of ex Air Berlin guys and these are f..... again.

Last edited by His dudeness; 6th Feb 2019 at 09:21.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 09:43
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
SaulGoodman

It's a way in. Life is full of choices. Take it or leave it. Is anyone forcing anyone to take this route? Your comment is just as useless!
Would you choose to have heart surgery performed by a surgeon who had to pay for his training, and then pay the hospital to be allowed to operate on you? Really? No chance of him being in dire stress, no where to live, coming in to operate when sick and so on, is there?

The managers who create schemes like this deserve to fail. The real shame is the fact that innocents are dragged down with them - in this case the regular pilots and cabin crew.

HT, I suggest that you take a long look at yourself. Exploiting the vulnerable is not an admirable trait.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:03
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Put your handbags away

Can we stop bickering now over this? The bottom line is that Germania did help a number of pilots into the job market by giving them hours, but you may not like the way they did it. The snag is that most are now unemployed, but they may be OK because there is a shortage of experienced pilots...apparently.

But remember there are a lot of other staff, cabin crew, engineers, ground ops, planners, admin, accountants all without an immediate future.

Good luck to all the staff at Germania, whether you were part of P2F or not. Being out of work is no fun.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:11
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wickerbill View Post
Can we stop bickering now over this? The bottom line is that Germania did help a number of pilots into the job market by giving them hours, but you may not like the way they did it. The snag is that most are now unemployed, but they may be OK because there is a shortage of experienced pilots...apparently.

But remember there are a lot of other staff, cabin crew, engineers, ground ops, planners, admin, accountants all without an immediate future.

Good luck to all the staff at Germania, whether you were part of P2F or not. Being out of work is no fun.

Ahhh the just except any and everything brigade. "Giving them hours" Oh the joy, the nice people they were. I guess we should start a charity for ST's management then ?

I think it would be better if we all buy our own fuel in future, so that the Michael O'Learies of this planet can get a decent payback for giving us all the hours...selfless folks, these...
Apart from my sarcasm:
There is no shortage, at least not in Germany. And all of these folks in ST were UNDERPAID all the the time already.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:25
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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HT, I suggest that you take a long look at yourself. Exploiting the vulnerable is not an admirable trait.
That would suggest that you accuse me of being a person who exploits the vulnerable? What a damning statement to make, and so far from the truth!

As for your analogy, I will resist to go into that or we will go off piste.

Sorry, but even though I fully agree with your view that the managers who create these schemes deserve to fail, that won't happen unless these jobs are not applied for in the first place. Don't blame the airline, blame the guys and girls who apply accepting these T&Cs. If there were no takers things would have to change.

Anyway, whatever some of you may think of Germania, the bottom line is that a large workforce have lost their jobs and my thoughts are with them.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 11:41
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 172driver View Post
You mean Ryanair. Laudamotion doesn't exist as separate entity anymore.
Laudamotion will continue to exist as a separate entity with its own management.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 02:48
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Sort-of interview with young ST pilot (in German):

https://www.bento.de/future/germania-insolvenz-dieser-junge-pilot-zahlte-100-000-euro-fuer-den-traumjob-jetzt-ist-er-weg-a-e69f8cc9-3496-490c-af35-65f62cbfbaad

Strong topic but very weak journalism.

Did they pay the full amount upfront when joining the P2F scheme or was it "pay as you go" i.e. per flight hour?

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Old 7th Feb 2019, 07:03
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".
Not sure it's true, time will probably tell.
Would limit the options for the pilots a but further, nasty.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 07:05
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by shorthauler72 View Post
Did they pay the full amount upfront when joining the P2F scheme or was it "pay as you go" i.e. per flight hour?
Neither. Apparently he did the type rating on a private basis before joining Germania which cost him 29k. The rest was doing his ATPL, also on a private basis it looks like. The way the article reads he was regularly employed by Germania and enjoyed it. He will probably be taken on by someone else relatively fast, time for out of work pilots have not been this hopeful for a while. Lots of companies are looking. I talked to someone in a similar position last week and he had offers of 4 major companies he could choose from.

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Old 7th Feb 2019, 07:11
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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The days of their infamous proper p2f, charging FOs by the hour in addition to the the type rating are long gone, that was 15-20years ago as far as i know. Nowadays its pay for your rating and earn a low salary, which was honestly not the worst option for rookies. Salaries for pilots in germany outside of LH and Tui are ridiculous even by european standards so germania basically just fitted in on the lower end



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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:35
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Plus you need to pass that DLR test for anything LH related. If you don't or have failed once before there is not much choice left. Maybe this no mercy practice is forcing young pilots into P2F and similar too? Maybe the VC union should start with their own policy?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 04:55
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
Maybe useless was the wrong choice of wording. However, your situation back in the 60ís has nothing to do with the t&cís in germania. You just used it for talking down younger generations.
I thought old people talking down to younger generation was an issue isolated to Australia/NZ. Seems not.

HT - that was a rubbish appraisal. In your day, there wasnít a significant disparity between income and expense, competition for jobs just wasnít really there. This argument has been had.

Wishing well to the people of germania.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 09:53
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah, love talking down to those cocky young chaps! The fact is that from personal experience at the time I disagree with your rose coloured view of that era.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by safelife View Post
The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".
Not sure it's true, time will probably tell.
Would limit the options for the pilots a but further, nasty.
Cargolux and laudamotion are accepting applications from Germania pilots. In fact, Laudamotion is specifically targeting them and so are a few others. Not the worst time to lose your job
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 15:34
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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The gossip is, Cargolux, Edelweiss, Laudamotion and Swiss not accepting GMI pilots "due to pay2fly at GMI".
Cargolux and laudamotion are accepting applications from Germania pilots. In fact, Laudamotion is specifically targeting them
I wonder who was behind the "gossip". Wishful anti Germania person(s) for sure. Good to see that it was total nonsense!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 12:33
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...with-investors
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:38
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder about what? The slots are already re-allocated via the slot coordinator. Of course, that is not a problem in Erfurt and Paderborn. But there wasn't really anyone queuing up to compete there anyway. Well, i won't cry over the demise of that company, i just feel sorry for my colleagues working there.
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Old 19th Feb 2019, 16:16
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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A colleague just called me to say the rumours in Germany are that the German operation has been bought by Swiss Investors and, as he puts it, there is now an airline called SWISS with German ownership and an airline called GERMANIA with Swiss ownership !!

Not sure if his info is correct, but I do like the possible irony.
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