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PIA - fake pilots and cabin crew

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PIA - fake pilots and cabin crew

Old 1st Jan 2019, 13:15
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PIA - fake pilots and cabin crew

It seems some 'crew members' have been rumbled with their qualifications. Pilots yes but do canin crew really need a degree? Maybe in common sense yes.

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Old 1st Jan 2019, 14:07
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Originally Posted by crewmeal View Post
It seems some 'crew members' have been rumbled with their qualifications. Pilots yes but do canin crew really need a degree? Maybe in common sense yes.
What on earth is a "High School Degree"?
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 15:41
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Higher Secondary School Certificate - awarded by examination.

OK, OK, it's a "diploma" not a "degree" - but Pakistan is an "education-proud" culture, and we are talking about a translation (mental or written) from Urdu to English.

What on earth is "anal retentive?" Adjective: Excessively orderly and fussy. A person who pays such attention to detail that it becomes an obsession and may be an annoyance to others.

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Old 1st Jan 2019, 16:48
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post

What on earth is "anal retentive?" Adjective: Excessively orderly and fussy. A person who pays such attention to detail that it becomes an obsession and may be an annoyance to others.

As in anyone who has difficulty figuring out that "canin crew" does not refer to support dogs for the pilots.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 20:32
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Perhaps, as well as doing alcohol tests, pilots should be subject to random GMAT tests too(???) 😁
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 22:14
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My degree says B.A. (Calcutta) (failed). Is that good enough?
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 23:30
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Perish the thought, failing a degree!!
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 23:50
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Perish the thought, failing a degree!!
Well, I don't know much, but as a professor of electronics engineering technology (retired), I do know that I have seen more than my share of supposed electronics graduates from that part of the world that would have filled the lab with the smell of burning flesh if I hadn't stopped them turning on the soldering iron while they held the wrong end!
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 00:52
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Airlines in the USA usually require a college degree for pilots, students are getting into huge debts to obtain qualifications which are virtually worthless when it comes to getting a job where as a decent technical qualification would cost less, have them employed sooner and earning more money.

Some third world countries degrees wouldn't be at the same level as a western high school certificate. In the Philippines, having been to college and failed still makes you college level when it comes to employment.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 01:00
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To lie about the first level of education - the High School Certificate/Diploma/Degree or whatever else it is called, calls into question every other qualification you have. If you have failed and lied to say you passed that is one thing, but to have obtained a fake qualification is fraudulent. No other piece of paper you hold can be trusted to be true.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 02:52
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And now the Real Qestiion

Originally Posted by 4EvahLearning View Post
To lie about the first level of education - the High School Certificate/Diploma/Degree or whatever else it is called, calls into question every other qualification you have. If you have failed and lied to say you passed that is one thing, but to have obtained a fake qualification is fraudulent. No other piece of paper you hold can be trusted to be true.
Have they been found to be able to carry out their duties despite the lack of a degree?
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 03:45
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Originally Posted by Longtimer View Post
Have they been found to be able to carry out their duties despite the lack of a degree?
I nearly mentioned that in my post but decided that everyone on PPRuNe would know regardless of skill, the regulatory bodies and insurance companies require bona fide qualifications, which in our world, means bits of paper (or whatever form it takes these days) proving the said skill set has been demonstrated and the theory, which covers off everything that is not demonstrable, is known.

It would be a shame if everything they did since high school was legitimate and to lose their careers over a fraud committed when they were but children. It's just that it brings into question everything they have done since, legitimate or not.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 07:59
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Pakistan’s next door neighbour India, has an unfortunate history regarding fake licenses with students receiving substantial payment discounts for logbook hours which whilst not actually flown will still be verified by the school if checked. A newly qualified CPL holder might have 200hrs logged but have only spent less than 100 in the air.

This is much easier to detect as it will soon manifest itself during further training, or out on the line when incidents start occurring.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 08:59
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It the same in the I.T world too.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 09:18
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This is much easier to detect as it will soon manifest itself during further training, or out on the line when incidents start occurring.
Incidents start occurring like a great smouldering hole in the ground where there was once 400 passengers, a crew and a 350million dollar aircraft.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 09:22
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When I was in the RAF recruiting world we had a long list of 'equivalents' when overseas qualifications were produced. I seem to remember that an Indian BSc (failed) was equivalent to five 'O' levels!

Last edited by Four Turbo; 2nd Jan 2019 at 09:23. Reason: spelling
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 09:31
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It the same in the I.T world too.
Meaning ?
I know of someone who left school at 16 with no qualifications /certificates and spent 35 years in the IT industry from programmer upwards.
He gained no paper qualifications for the job but was well respected for the work he did.
Of course he was not allowed to risk passengers lives.
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 10:17
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Airlines in the USA usually require a college degree for pilots, students are getting into huge debts to obtain qualifications which are virtually worthless when it comes to getting a job where as a decent technical qualification would cost less, have them employed sooner and earning more money.
Precisely...and much debated here. At least in the US career-airline job hunting, people are driven/forced to play the game by the rules set out by the HR "suits".

Some people feel this will change in the near future; I have no idea. I've seen Delta declare unequivocally that they'll "never" drop the requirement for a 4-year college degree...even if it's a degree in Sanskrit. (yep, flew with an FO who had such a degree.)
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 22:33
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I have 15K+ hours, Type rated on B737, B757, B767, A319 and G-V, G-550. Also check airman on the 737 and Gulfstreams. Applied for a job with a company which operated all those types. No interview even though I had a letter of recommendation. Reason? I do not have a degree. So a degree in basket weaving is better than half a century of accident free flying?
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 00:03
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I’ve survived not having a degree. It’s merely a measure of your “leaning ability” but there are other yardsticks which can be used. Such as IQ testing. Much as I hate the HR bollox it could be used if one has no degree or “college education”, whatever that is.... I think having passed ATPL exams is also an indicator. Certainly in Europe it used to be the case prior to EASA that the ATPL was equivalent to a first degree (EASA exams are easier) Or, as I’ve been told, you can just buy a degree off t’interweb.
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