767 300 diverts to Shemya-Alaska for Engine Issue

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by SeenItAll

How does that work? The 757 will need to stop for refueling. Did the 747 also stop along the way to maintain proximity to the back-up? (Yes, I know that the 747 does have aerial refueling, but AFAIK, it has never been used while a President is onboard).

The 757 departed Andrews a couple of hours early and stopped in Ramstein for gas but the 747 went non-stop. The 747 used a bogus unassigned ADS-B code with the Reach callsign. The 757 is often airborne nearby when the 747 is due to depart so they can swoop down and get the pax if the '74 goes AOG for a maintenance problem.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

From a Boeing article:

Passenger recovery plan.

Revised regulation 14 CFR

requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes (excluding 207-minute ETOPS, as explained above), and for all polar operations, the air carrier must develop a plan to ensure the well-being of passengers and crew members at each approved en route alternate airport listed in this carrier's operations specifications. Because challenging alternate airports tend to be found in the most remote parts of the world, passenger recovery plans are no longer required for ETOPS below 180 minutes.

This passenger recovery plan must address the safety and comfort, in terms of facilities and accommodations, of stranded passengers at the diversion airport. As its name suggests, it must also address their prompt retrieval from the airport.

Polar operations also require passenger recovery plans, as codified in this rulemaking's polar policy. Initially implemented as an FAA policy letter in 2001, this polar policy also requires diversion airport planning, another key ETOPS concept. Despite these similarities, however, polar operations are distinct from ETOPS because North and South Polar operations entail unique requirements, such as special onboard equipment and a fuel freeze strategy.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/ae...icle_02_5.html

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it, but they probably still have an explicit pax recovery plan in the book for places like PASY and PACD.

[aterpster]

Interesting stuff. Sort of like a Tom Clancy book. I suspect nearing the bad guys, the 747 picked up a fighter escort.

[mustbeaboeing]

Airbubba.

To be pedantic, your posts possibly say different things, and I am a bit confused.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

Then....the ‘quote’ from Boeing

requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes


You then said.....

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it


Thepedanticbit, perhaps on my part, is that if Delta’s B-763’s are 180 minute ETOPS, they are not beyond 180 minutes.

I appreciate you do state may not legally require it.

It is is a very interesting discussion nevertheless.

[filejw]

Delta’s plan is to send a/c to pic up stranded passengers.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by mustbeaboeing

Airbubba.

To be pedantic, your posts possibly say different things, and I am a bit confused.

Over on the civilian side, U.S. carriers are required to have an approved passenger recovery plan in their ops manual for ETOPS over 180 minutes.

Then....the ‘quote’ from Boeing

requires that for all ETOPS flying beyond 180 minutes


You then said.....

I'm guessing that Delta's B-763's are 180-minute ETOPS and may not legally require it


Thepedanticbit, perhaps on my part, is that if Delta’s B-763’s are 180 minute ETOPS, they are not beyond 180 minutes.

I appreciate you do state may not legally require it.

It is is a very interesting discussion nevertheless.

Well, since I'm not sure what level of ETOPS Delta uses on the venerable B-763, I'm not sure if the passenger recovery plan is a required part of the DL ops manual for that particular plane. But, I'll hedge my bets even more since the Boeing article was written in 2007 and exemptions and advisory circulars inevitably modify things as time goes on in my experience.

I'm not rightly sure, in other words.

It turns out that on the NOPAC routes when, say, Shemya is below mins or closed for some reason, if you have 180-minute ETOPS, you can get approval for 207-minute ETOPS on an exception basis without the 'over 180-minute' requirements.

From the Boeing article I cited above:

Note that 207-minute ETOPS is not subject to the new ETOPS requirements for "beyond-180-minute flight operations.” Flown since 2000, this authority arose as a 15 percent operational extension, for limited use on an exception basis, to 180-minute ETOPS authority. it is thus considered an extension of and subject to the requirements for the traditional 180-minute “twinjet ETOPS” diversion authority.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by filejw

Delta’s plan is to send a/c to pic up stranded passengers.

The pax went to SEA on DL9928 on Christmas Eve:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...355Z/PASY/KSEA

Thanks to Delta and the dateline for same day service.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Airbubba

The pax went to SEA on DL9928 on Christmas Eve:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...355Z/PASY/KSEA

Thanks to Delta and the dateline for same day service.

The passengers reportedly arrived in Seattle about 12 hours late.
Not bad at all, considering the circumstances.