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LHR - AVA near miss over Cali, Colombia

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LHR - AVA near miss over Cali, Colombia

Old 28th Nov 2018, 11:16
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LHR - AVA near miss over Cali, Colombia

17/11/18 - Traffic diverting from Bogota to Cali lead to close call between LHR and AVA heavies.

Lost in translation: Lufthansa and Cali ATC face language barrier


The language barrier between a diverted Lufthansa flight and a Cali air traffic controller led to a confusing, and potentially dangerous situation. Luckily, another pilot on an Avianca Brazil flight was here to save the day.

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Old 28th Nov 2018, 16:32
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https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.ch...nguage-barrier
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 18:11
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Fuller story from AvHerald: Incident: Lufthansa A346 at Cali on Nov 17th 2018, language barrier with ATC
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 18:24
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 19:18
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Many factors involved. The main one for me were the many crossed transmissions due to the saturated sector and frequency. It certainly didn't help matters. Furthermore, Lufthansa not having a pertinent way point in their FMS also didn't help any. I don't know what the ATC staff compliment were and how many sectors they had open at the time, so it's difficult to judge. In my mind the sector and the controller were overloaded for a period of time.
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 19:53
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It had nothing to do with a language barrier.
Waypoint "MANGA" was not in that particular database on that A346 due to limited resources of the FMS.

So just imagine yourself, after 12 hours with all that chatter on the frequency, punching "M-A-N-G-A" into the FMS, seeing it on your electronic map, but the FMS just not accepting the input, asking again for ATC to spell it, just in case you have misunderstood etc.

The second (audible male) controller figured it out and gave headings, to sort out the situation.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 13:29
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I'm somewhat confused by the relevance of the long flight flown by DLH before he got into that mess. Not really sure AVA9209 should have requested special treatment for Lufthansa because of that. There was no real language issue. Upon arrival at SKBO, DLH should have had the same reserve fuel as anyone else so that was not an issue either, not to mention that they surely had a backup crew.

The fact of the matter is that MANGA is a critical waypoint when approaching SKCL from the east as it is associated with ALT restrictions above 16.000 ft peaks. No modern aircraft should be anywhere near Cali with an outdated AIRAC.

Maybe the controller should have ordered radio silence and everyone hold indefinitely as instructed after receiving five or more estimate requests in short order. Fuel critical aircraft would have requested Priority. Brings back the chills from LMI2933. Lots to learn from this one...
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 11:17
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Originally Posted by fs_freak View Post
I'm somewhat confused by the relevance of the long flight flown by DLH before he got into that mess. Not really sure AVA9209 should have requested special treatment for Lufthansa because of that. There was no real language issue. Upon arrival at SKBO, DLH should have had the same reserve fuel as anyone else so that was not an issue either, not to mention that they surely had a backup crew.

Lufthansa does not have a backup crew, LH542, with a block time of 11:45 would be three man, CP, SFO and FO
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:36
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Originally Posted by Salina Chan View Post
Lufthansa does not have a backup crew, LH542, with a block time of 11:45 would be three man, CP, SFO and FO
Thanks for clearing that up. Guess fatigue was indeed a factor. Anyway, in the end they seem to have dialed in MANGA and manged to hold over the fix. Still think the Avianca pilot was a bit harsh with the controller.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 10:57
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Originally Posted by fs_freak View Post
No modern aircraft should be .... with an outdated AIRAC.
ATC hands out waypoints left and right. Many are seldom used and thus should not be created in the first place. That in combination with a stone age IT structure (relatively speaking) create these problems. Storage is precious in old system. "My" aircraft runs on Windows 2000 with 386 processors and had an service entry date of 2004. Compare that to modern PCs/Systems. Getting spares for old IT is also an issue, btw.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 15:37
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ATC hands out waypoints left and right. Many are seldom used and thus should not be created in the first place.
I really don't know where you get that from or where you are going with it! In this particular case it is a known and much used waypoint. If your aircraft can't comply with modern navigation requirements, don't fly it!
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