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B744F off the runway in YHZ

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B744F off the runway in YHZ

Old 7th Nov 2018, 17:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek View Post
Is there a good reason for selecting runway 14 ?.
Do both runways have, for example, a working ILS ?
ILS 14 was working until the plane took out the localizer on the upwind end.

ILS 23 was previously Notam'ed out of service:

YHZ 11/021 YHZ CYHZ ILS 23 U/S 1811062155-1811082100
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 17:09
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hailstone View Post
why is it being reported as a "Chinese SkyLease Cargo 747", when it has an "N" Registration ? Are Skylease chinese owned ?
No obvious Chinese connection AFAIK.
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 17:55
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
No obvious Chinese connection AFAIK.
Apparently from Sept2018 it had ""Having Fish Every Year" in large Chinese titles on its left side. Maybe that's where the impression of Chinese ownership came from.
Boeing 747-412F - Sky Lease Cargo Aviation Photo #5272303 Airliners.net
According to FR24 in the last seven days it has operated twice from Halifax to Changsha via Anchorage and return via ANC and ORD. Maybe earlier history would indicate a longterm regular contract to Changsha perhaps carrying fish?
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 19:30
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
No obvious Chinese connection AFAIK.
From a Halifax Stanfield Airport press release dated August of this year:

"First Catch, a Chinese-owned seafood freight forwarding company based at Halifax Stanfield, is currently offering two flights per week from Halifax to Changsha, the capital of Hunan province. The flights are operated by SkyLease Cargo utilizing a Boeing 747-400 freighter aircraft, which has the capacity to carry up to 120 tonnes of Nova Scotia seafood to China."
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 22:20
  #25 (permalink)  

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Yeah, China contract but the airplanes and crews are based in MIA at the corrosion corner of the airport.
A lot of the experienced pilots have left causing a brain drain.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 00:24
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Took some photos on the way home from work.









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Old 8th Nov 2018, 00:27
  #27 (permalink)  

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Sad ending to a great airplane.
Curious to why...
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 01:31
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mudman View Post
Took some photos on the way home from work.
Those weren't taken with an iPhone. Great pictures of a sad event.

Originally Posted by TowerDog View Post
Sad ending to a great airplane.
Curious to why...


I'm guessing that they didn't have GPS for the RNAV 23 as CanadianAirbusPilot said and thought they needed the ILS to get under the 500 broken layer on the 9Z weather. They were empty and viz was good
but the runway was short, wet, not grooved and had a gusty tailwind.

But, that is just a guess...
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 01:53
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Those weren't taken with an iPhone. Great pictures of a sad event.
Thanks. Canon 70D Sigma 10-20mm and Canon 70-300mm
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 02:50
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Miracle that there was no fire, given that they must have had enough fuel for quite a diversion if needed.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 03:52
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Originally Posted by McGinty View Post
Miracle that there was no fire, given that they must have had enough fuel for quite a diversion if needed.
There actually was a small fire on the tail according to the LiveATC recording linked in the JACDEC article cited above. I presume it was the APU or its fuel line. It flared up and was put out a couple of times by the ARFF crew according to the transmissions.

But yes, the outcome could have been much worse for the crew.

I notice that the spoilers are down, were they caught on the evac checklist? Or, do they quickly bleed down when the hydraulics are shut off?
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 04:15
  #32 (permalink)  
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And yes, it probably ends the company as well...
Just possible the insurance money could save the day? Pay off a few bills, get another one out of the desert?
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 05:16
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Allegedly the same PIC :

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=214704
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 21:53
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Tailwind and gusty wind? Wet runway? The shortest runway? The safety margin was strongly reduced! Not the best choice to go for rwy 14...
Let's talk seriously now...What about landing performance calculations? Were they really within limits with the usual 15% recommanded increment? The margin should have been so tight!
Now if the ceiling was 500 ft AGL or above, why not try GPS or NDB 23?
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 22:01
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With the gust I get a 16 knot tailwind component, does the B-744F even have numbers for this?
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 22:40
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My googlefu says max tailwind limit is 15 knots.
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 22:46
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Some more photos...
Interesting to see the bits of the fan blades along the fence line.









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Old 11th Nov 2018, 23:10
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
If that is this case, i hope the pilot is reading this as he deserves to be told he should never be allowed near an aircraft for the rest of his days. He obviously doesn't know how to fly and only how to crash. Rejecting a takeoff above V1 with an engine failure on a 4 engine aircraft (not that it makes it any more acceptable than doing it on any aircraft with any number of engines after passing V1) followed by landing with a 21kt tailwind in the wet on a short runway. His license should have been torn up after the first un-deniable cockup. Thank god this guy wasn't flying passengers, only his unlucky colleagues. Ultimately, the airline here sounds responsible, allowing this plonker to sit in the cockpit of their nice aircraft.

Constructively, ATC were trying to help, perhaps they could be more clear and calculate the tailwind component and press their concerns by matter of factly asking again, 'are you sure you want to land with a 21kt tailwind?'
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 02:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks again for more great pictures Mudman. Do you shoot in RAW and edit in LR?

I hope the TSB finds those fan blades. Most probably not related to the cause of the mishap in this case, however. Part of a CF6 disk was found nearly 3000 feet from the plane in the AA383 abort at ORD a couple of years ago.

Originally Posted by giggitygiggity View Post
Constructively, ATC were trying to help, perhaps they could be more clear and calculate the tailwind component and press their concerns by matter of factly asking again, 'are you sure you want to land with a 21kt tailwind?'
I've never seen ATC calculate a tailwind component for me. I did have a couple of colleagues violated by the FAA years ago after an inspector in the cockpit of another aircraft observed them doing a tailwind takeoff in excess of the ten knot limit on that aircraft.

Just for clarity, while the quartering tailwind was gusting to 21 knots, the tailwind component was less due to the direction.

From the JACDEC transcript I posted earlier:

Tower: „SkyCube 4854, tailwind now 280 at 16 confirm gusting 21, confirm runway 14 still acceptable ?“

GG 4854: „Confirm..ah, still for 14.“
I get a 16 knot tailwind component for this wind gust on runway 14.

Tower: „SkyCube 4854 heavy, tower roger, wind 260 at 16 gusting 21 cleared to land on 14.“

GG 4854: „Cleared to land..ah.. affir..clear to land on 14, SkyCube 4854 heavy“

Tower: „Roger.“
With this final wind check the tailwind component is 10 knots in the gust as the reported direction swings more to a crosswind.
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 03:27
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Thanks again for more great pictures Mudman. Do you shoot in RAW and edit in LR?

I hope the TSB finds those fan blades. Most probably not related to the cause of the mishap in this case, however. Part of a CF6 disk was found nearly 3000 feet from the plane in the AA383 abort at ORD a couple of years ago.



I've never seen ATC calculate a tailwind component for me. I did have a couple of colleagues violated by the FAA years ago after an inspector in the cockpit of another aircraft observed them doing a tailwind takeoff in excess of the ten knot limit on that aircraft.

Just for clarity, while the quartering tailwind was gusting to 21 knots, the tailwind component was less due to the direction.

From the JACDEC transcript I posted earlier:



I get a 16 knot tailwind component for this wind gust on runway 14.



With this final wind check the tailwind component is 10 knots in the gust as the reported direction swings more to a crosswind.
Tbh, i didn't calculate it precisely so you got me there, but either way, it is most of it when there is in fact a runway in the reciprocal direction (ceiling providing) and an alternate that I'm sure was just fine and dandy.

I'm sure they have never had to tell you that info and thankfully i've never been in that situation they've needed to tell me, but obviously the controller thought this was a bad idea. I don't fly the 747 but is a 2300m wet runway going to work in a tailwind at a reasonable weight, let alone a 16kt one? Whilst I know it isn't his job to try to persuade the guy not to take it, obviously he was concerned that it might be out of limits and that perhaps giving the tailwind to a pilot that doesn't seem to be internalising the information given (a bloody strong tailwind), stating the obvious might have been useful in this instance to snap him out of it. I'm not sure of the name of the CRM model but there is one that tries to empower individuals to basically bark cold hard information with as much clarity as possible to stop someone from doing something stupid (RAISE model?), although I don't know how this would fit in to a controllers role as a service provider. I cant remember the exact details but there was a similar case in florida (i think?!) recently with a light twin, the pilot was told about a tailwind in excess of 20kts, he was just given the direction and perhaps was overloaded at that time that he didn't have the capacity to calculate the component. Perhaps someone more familiar with the 747 would suggest what a sensible RLD/FLD for a 16kt tailwind?
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