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Another A380 Woe?

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Another A380 Woe?

Old 15th Feb 2019, 07:41
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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First A350-1000 for Etihad (msn 290) at Toulouse a couple of weeks ago:



https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7845/4...d4d87214_k.jpg

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Old 15th Feb 2019, 08:21
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Andy S:
And given that they've just cancelled their A350 order
Who told you that? Airbus thinks Etihad has 40 941 and 22 1041 still on the order book.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 08:34
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Production to end in 2021; a pity, it's a lovely plane for passengers, very quiet.
Such a shame. In the last number of years I have been deliberately selecting the A380 and paying a premium for the privilege in the name of comfort. Pity it's not profitable even under these circumstances.

I vividly recall during it's development that Boeing were saying Airbus got their market research all wrong. I guess they've been vindicated.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 09:53
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
I vividly recall during it's development that Boeing were saying Airbus got their market research all wrong. I guess they've been vindicated.
Not sure on that. Somewhere recently (maybe earlier on this thread) I've seen numbers that show the Airbus estimates were actually about the number they sold - problem is that they messed up the development/production so much that they needed to sell twice that number to get the money back.

Boeing then stuffed up 787 development/production too, but there was enough of a market there to recover it.

Both companies will have learned from the experience - notably Airbus took the A350 right back to the drawing board based on market research, and then seem to have developed and produced it very quietly and uneventfully, and it sells. 777X may well go the same way for Boeing - certainly seems much less eventful than the 787 so far.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 10:09
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Andy S:
Who told you that? Airbus thinks Etihad has 40 941 and 22 1041 still on the order book.
It was a tongue in cheek response Kelvin, not meant to be taken entirely seriously.

For the record, I understand that Etihad have reduced, rather than completely cancelled their A350 order.

But back to the A380.........
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 10:18
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Andy S:
Who told you that? Airbus thinks Etihad has 40 941 and 22 1041 still on the order book.
thatís not up to date.... Perhaps still being processed?
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 10:55
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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I am another pax who prefers to fly on an A380. On what other aeroplane can I have a shower? (got upgraded once)
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 11:40
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bull at a Gate View Post
I am another pax who prefers to fly on an A380. On what other aeroplane can I have a shower? (got upgraded once)
ah yes, the $2m shower (give or take)
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 12:09
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
Maybe not if the cost of fixing the wing cracks is too high
The fleet wide wing rib feet repair/modification was finished a couple of years ago, as far as I know there have been no problems with the post repair/modification.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 12:14
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bull at a Gate View Post
I am another pax who prefers to fly on an A380. On what other aeroplane can I have a shower? (got upgraded once)
Putin's Tupolev has a shower
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 12:22
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting discussion. History has a way of repeating itself. The A-380 story has many parallels to the DC-10/L-1011 development. Both Lockheed and Douglas had a limited market for a 3 engine wide body aircraft. Both manufacturers didnít want its competitor to control the market so each built an aircraft that would insure a split market at best, and sales would never reach a profitable level. In the end the decision to build both aircraft led to the demise of Lockheedís commercial division and was a huge financial burden to McD. I know Airbus believed there was a market for a super-jumbo, but as long as Boeing was still building the 747, most sales would be split, and profit margins shaved due to underbidding etc...couple this with the fact that the costs of building the 380 was quite expensive vice the 747, due to various reasons other posters have mentioned, and one has the recipe for financial and market failure.



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Old 15th Feb 2019, 13:38
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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72% of 777X orders are with the Gulf carriers, out of those the EY ones are a certain write off, so all not rosy in Mr Boeing's garden either.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 14:43
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mk 1 View Post
Not quite the only game in town - as a new build you are correct - but there is also the An124 with a payload over 100 tonnes and the sole An225 with double that.
While I am not an air freight expert, I think there is a significant difference between bulk carriers and containerized/palletized carriers. The Antonovs are bulk carriers -- one huge cargo bay that can carry outsized idiosyncratic freight. The 747s generally have two decks and carry containers or pallets. Unless, the Antonovs can be redesigned to segment their cargo bays into multiple decks, they won't be competitive in carrying standardized container/pallets.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 15:48
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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The 74 arrived at just the right time to be the success it was
So 1973 (oil shock) and the next following years were great for aviation ?

There was just nothing that came close at the time and it took quite a time for the 340s/777s etc to arrive on the market.

The 380 is a niche product at huge costs IMHO and thats why it had a problem right from the start. And it is fugly. Nothing like the gracious lines of the 47, which still looks just right.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 18:48
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Most of the posts that declare a preference for traveling on the A380, seem to be from “Premium SLF”

My one and only sector on one was a SQ flight from London to Singapore, in the back of the bus. It was the most uncomfortable long-haul flight I have ever experienced. Both my wife and I made frequent trips to the lavatories, not because of a need, but just to be able to sit in a different position for a few minutes!

My only other encounter with an A380 was an hour in a simulator. That was a completely different experience.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 19:34
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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I've seen numbers that show the Airbus estimates were actually about the number they sold
From the BBC:
Airbus' Global Market Forecast from the year 2000 predicted that 1,235 "very large aircraft" would be delivered to customers between 2000 and 2019
As of February 7, 2019 Airbus has 313 firm orders for the A380, so, no, not as predicted. Not by a long shot.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 19:55
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789
....notably Airbus took the A350 right back to the drawing board based on market research....
But not until after they'd tried to tell the airlines that what they wanted was a re-winged and re-engined A330, as I recall.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 19:57
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Poor phrasing on my part. There have been 313 firm orders for the A380 and 234 deliveries as of 07 February, 2019. I suppose one should subtract the cancelled Emirates order which was, I believe, 53 aircraft.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 21:04
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LookingForAJob View Post
But not until after they'd tried to tell the airlines that what they wanted was a re-winged and re-engined A330, as I recall.
And then they listened to the market. Who knows, that might catch on.
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 21:43
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Winemaker View Post
Poor phrasing on my part. There have been 313 firm orders for the A380 and 234 deliveries as of 07 February, 2019. I suppose one should subtract the cancelled Emirates order which was, I believe, 53 aircraft.
Appears the final built total for the A380 will be a bit over 250 units - word is they will build 17 more for Emirates before they shut it down (given the lead times for some components, I suspect some long lead bits for those 17 have already been started).

As for the Antonovs, SeenItAll beat me to it - they are not routinely used for scheduled freight service (and are not cost effective for such use). Rather the AN124 is basically a charter freighter - used to transport outsized items that simply don't fit in other freighter aircraft.
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