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Shannon FIR closed

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Shannon FIR closed

Old 2nd Oct 2018, 22:01
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Shannon FIR closed

The FIR has suffered a complete radar failure and has instituted a zero rate until 2300z
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Old 2nd Oct 2018, 22:55
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Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
The FIR has suffered a complete radar failure and has instituted a zero rate until 2300z
what happened to procedural control.
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Old 2nd Oct 2018, 22:58
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Originally Posted by firewall View Post

what happened to procedural control.
+1

don't they have a contingency/ back-up plan?
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Old 2nd Oct 2018, 23:00
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I don't believe they have any controllers that can operate procedural control
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Old 2nd Oct 2018, 23:22
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If so, that is pathetic. Shannon do not warrant nav charges if that is the case.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 09:05
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I think you'll find London and Scottish FIRs would be in the same boat. Procedural fallback has not been an option for at the very least 25+ years.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 12:10
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The only area unit in the UK or Ireland that has a procedural fallback is Oceanic.

I started at Prestwick Centre in 1991, there has never been a procedural fallback since way before that date.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 12:18
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This makes me wonder whether Ireland needs to enforce ADS-B use, as Australia already does. Area-wide radar is looking a bit old-fashioned at this point. There should be no single point of failure in such a critical function.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 12:26
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@bnt, it all depends on what actually failed.

If the data feed to all the displays was lost ( remember that my PC friends ! ) with the radars or ADS receivers still working, you are still stuffed.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 13:45
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Sounds like the system is still in a failure mode, and whilst flights are operating normally,the system itself is running in contingency mode.

Statement from the Irish Aviation Authority: 08:10 – October 3

The IAA continues to investigate the technical issue which occurred in Shannon Airport last evening. Services to and from Shannon and Cork are operating normally on the IAA’s Shannon back-up system.

The IAA’s Dublin system was unaffected and Dublin flights are operating normally. The Dublin system is independent of the Shannon system.

https://www.iaa.ie/news/2018/10/03/s...8-10-october-3
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 15:05
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Originally Posted by The Fat Controller View Post
The only area unit in the UK or Ireland that has a procedural fallback is Oceanic.

I started at Prestwick Centre in 1991, there has never been a procedural fallback since way before that date.
The procedural capability effectively disappeared when the Scottish Centre moved from Redbrae to Atlantic House a move which completed in 1978.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 17:42
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Thanks - so it's coming, eventually.

I took the "radar" bit of the report literally i.e. as a failure of the radar itself, not any of the IT systems between the dish and the controllers!
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 21:38
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Originally Posted by bnt View Post
This makes me wonder whether Ireland needs to enforce ADS-B use, as Australia already does. Area-wide radar is looking a bit old-fashioned at this point. There should be no single point of failure in such a critical function.
You realize that 90% of today's ATC Facilities failures are system ones ( flight plan processing computers or data displays systems ) not the radar antennas. The failures occur regardless of the data source, being SSR antennas, multilateration or ADS-B .

Last edited by ATC Watcher; 3rd Oct 2018 at 21:41. Reason: correction
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 22:37
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Were overflights affected? Most at cruise crossing Ireland. Shanwick has no radar coverage beyond 200 miles so oceanic is procedural.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:27
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I saw an article which stated that there was a problem with cpdlc so transit traffic would have been affected.
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Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:32
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Originally Posted by firewall View Post
Were overflights affected? Most at cruise crossing Ireland. Shanwick has no radar coverage beyond 200 miles so oceanic is procedural.


Apparently so - The info from our Ops people last night was as stated in the OP, it was the Shannon FIR was effectively closed for all business. We had a couple of planned west-bounds out of LHR last night that were either going to be replanned to avoid Shannon or held on the ground TFN...fortunately the situation improved fairly quickly.
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 07:22
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Time to send a few controllers to Khartoum for some refresher training in procedural separation. Two weeks should do?
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 08:33
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Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra View Post
Time to send a few controllers to Khartoum for some refresher training in procedural separation. Two weeks should do?
Good one but even Khartoum has radar now, since quite some time even :-)
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Old 4th Oct 2018, 08:36
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
Good one but even Khartoum has radar now, since quite some time even :-)
And ads/cpdlc, although on trial, but it worked last time I was there...
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