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Boeing: desperate times call for desperate measures.

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Boeing: desperate times call for desperate measures.

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Old 11th Sep 2018, 02:09
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Boeing: desperate times call for desperate measures.

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) is bringing retired workers back on the job as the world's largest planemaker tries to fix delays at its 737 jetliner plant outside Seattle, a union official told Reuters on Monday.

The snarl at its plant in Renton, Washington, triggered by shortages of engines and fuselages as Boeing sped production to record levels in June, is likely to hurt third-quarter results and threatens its goal to boost build rates again in 2019, some analysts said after meetings in the Seattle area last week.

Single-aisle aircraft like the hot-selling 737 and Airbus (AIR.PA) A320 families are the cash cows of the world's two largest aircraft manufacturers.

Investors will get a peek on Tuesday at how far behind Boeing is when it releases its order and delivery tallies for August, a month after deliveries fell to the lowest level in years. Deliveries are crucial to planemakers because that is when airlines pay most of what they owe for the aircraft.

Boeing started hiring retired mechanics and inspectors on a temporary basis after reaching an agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers on Aug. 15, union spokeswoman Connie Kelliher said. Boeing had a similar agreement with the union last autumn following a round of voluntary layoffs, Kelliher said.

Boeing spokesman Paul Bergman said the company was dedicating additional resources to the Renton site "to ensure timely deliveries to our customers."
About 50 semi-finished 737s were scattered around the Renton plant last week, analysts said, several times the number of semi-finished aircraft Reuters reported in July.

Boeing largely attributes the snarl to shortages of fuselages from Wichita, Kansas-based Spirit AeroSystems Inc (SPR.N) and engines from CFM International Inc, a venture between France's Safran (SAF.PA) and General Electric Co (GE.N).

"We are working closely with our suppliers Spirit and CFM as they track toward recovery, as well as our customers," Bergman said. "Our team has been mitigating supplier delays, and our factory continues to build 52 airplanes per month."

CFM is working to fix delays by year-end, the GE-Safran venture said. Spirit did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 02:54
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Ok, shortage of fuselages from Spirit, but about 50 semi-finished (I'd assume that includes fuselages) at Renton?
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 04:38
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Originally Posted by underfire View Post
SEATTLE (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N) is bringing retired workers back on the job as the world's largest planemaker tries to fix delays at its 737 jetliner plant outside Seattle

Boeing started hiring retired mechanics and inspectors on a temporary basis after reaching an agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers on Aug. 15, union spokeswoman Connie Kelliher said. Boeing had a similar agreement with the union last autumn following a round of voluntary layoffs, Kelliher said.

Hopefully they have told Boeing they are are not going back without significant pay increases, commensurate with the experience they bring, and no need to train new workers
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 05:16
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
Ok, shortage of fuselages from Spirit, but about 50 semi-finished (I'd assume that includes fuselages) at Renton?
There are B-737s crammed into every available space at Renton Airport. They closed a parallel taxiway to park some of the planes on. A number of the planes have weights hanging from the engine mounts.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 16:40
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Originally Posted by Dee Vee View Post
Hopefully they have told Boeing they are are not going back without significant pay increases, commensurate with the experience they bring, and no need to train new workers
This is all covered under the existing labor contract with Boeing. So no, no individual negotiations.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 19:50
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Bringing back retired workers to help out in a pinch is actually pretty common practice at Boeing. As Ken notes, they have existing procedures to cover it. I was having a beer with an old college mate a few weeks ago who's also retired from Boeing. They brought him back for a few months to help out with the requirements definitions for the planned MMA.
DeeVee, senior machinists/mechanics at Boeing are rather well paid - most make six figures.
The biggest problem Boeing is having right now is obtaining sufficient new LEAP engines - pretty hard to deliver a new MAX aircraft without engines. Word is that they have some loaner engines they use to fly new 737 MAX aircraft to Boeing Field then remove the engines and truck them back to Renton to fly the next aircraft to Boeing Field. They are simply out of room in Renton.
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Old 11th Sep 2018, 21:56
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Max vs Old -800s

Funny old world the Aviation World, boom or bust!
Is it only the new Max we are seeing out there , as I assume the good old CFM 56 is still cranked out at a steady pace?
I ask because a certain Irish customer according rumour wanted to slow delivery of the -800 and was told : NO! some months back!
The Max are scheduled to arrive spring 2019 for them.

Does anyone know how many 737-800s are backlogged until the MAX take over?

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Old 11th Sep 2018, 23:28
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A bit of thread drift but anyone noticed all the 787 moving from NC to Everett today.?
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 00:18
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Anything being moved out of South Carolina might be a matter of hurricane avoidance. Florence is due to land there (or near by) on Friday.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 01:11
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
A bit of thread drift but anyone noticed all the 787 moving from NC to Everett today.?
Hurricane retreat flights
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 01:43
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What's the technical purpose of hanging weights from the engine mounts?
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 01:50
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Originally Posted by core_dump View Post
What's the technical purpose of hanging weights from the engine mounts?
Center of Gravity - basically it keeps the aircraft from falling on it's tail. On occasion, I've seen the nose wheels simply tied down instead.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 04:40
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767 View Post


Hurricane retreat flights
but why to everett- already full - why not wichita- eastern washington- ?
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:10
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Originally Posted by CONSO View Post
but why to everett- already full - why not wichita- eastern washington- ?
Boeing no longer has a presence in Wichita - what wasn't sold to Spirit was closed down several years ago.
In Everett they can still do work on them - Moses Lake not so much.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 07:35
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Center of Gravity - basically it keeps the aircraft from falling on it's tail. On occasion, I've seen the nose wheels simply tied down instead.
Given your location I expect you would know but aren't the weights primarily to provide bending relief for the wings? Otherwise, why not just hang one big weight on the nose - as you have suggested?
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 09:15
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Would it be because the Wing Engine mounts are designed to carry the weight directly.........
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 18:44
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Originally Posted by Rodney Rotorslap View Post
Given your location I expect you would know but aren't the weights primarily to provide bending relief for the wings? Otherwise, why not just hang one big weight on the nose - as you have suggested?
I do not think they are planning to fly with the blocks on the wings, so bending relief is not an issue. Forces in the wing on the ground can only be lower without weight on the pylon. I think tying down the nose works, until you want to tow, especially with a tow bar.
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Old 12th Sep 2018, 23:38
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I defer to the ultimate authority on the subject. I just checked Joe Sutter's book and he states that the concrete blocks were indeed to stop the aircraft tipping.
I suppose the same effect could have been achieved with a heavy pallet in the forward hold but the problem with ballast is that it can be forgotten! Replacing a concrete block with an engine can be achieved with the same equipment at the one site so it all makes perfect sense.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 01:05
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I defer to the ultimate authority on the subject. I just checked Joe Sutter's book and he states that the concrete blocks were indeed to stop the aircraft tipping.
I suppose the same effect could have been achieved with a heavy pallet in the forward hold but the problem with ballast is that it can be forgotten! Replacing a concrete block with an engine can be achieved with the same equipment at the one site so it all makes perfect sense.
ummmm. well, or just simply hang blocks on the engine mounts. (like they already have figured out?)

Looking at other posts, very interesting, especially how aircraft would fly with concrete blocks hanging form the engine mounts, instead of engines?

What's the technical purpose of hanging weights from the engine mounts?
Aside from all of the tipping over stuff...the wing is designed structurally to handle the load of the engine. This is achieved with the camber and other structural elements in place. Without that load, the wing construction can actually place undue stress on the structural elements. It is called Stage stressing. You stage stress the wing during construction, and pin certain elements in stages as the wing construction progresses. This prevents overstress on the elements, skin and fasteners. With the engine load in place, all elements can be securely fastened (especially the final panels. )

Lock off the elements before the load, and there is a primary stress built into the structure (that it was not designed for)

Think about a wooden truss. Assemble the wood framing, nail the plywood to the ides, then add a point load. The skin is now stressed with the load, and the framing stress with an added point load. The initial construction would be constructed, pre load and deflection with the associated load, thus inducing stress into the assembly, increasing stress loading in operations.

As an example, using wood framing that most can relate to. You have a beam on the first level, that has a column in the 1.3 span that carries 3 other floors. You set that beam, with its camber to take the load, and nail off the plywood. Then you start adding the load from the other floors under construction to that point load on the beam. The beam begins to deflect, that plywood that was fixed at the start, pre-load, with the fasteners that held the plywood down, starts to get stressed at the beam deflects with the load.
Now, if you set that beam, and hung a weight from that point, and then fastened the plywood, the skin and fasteners would not be stressed when the rest of the structure was built....you gradually reduce the weight added as the structure is built, thus mitigating the stress in the skin and connections to self weight conditions.

Last edited by underfire; 13th Sep 2018 at 01:34.
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Old 13th Sep 2018, 16:23
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