4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland
Thanks. I have missed that part. Surprising that they have managed so little (one device) in 3+ months.
As for the egines I'd be very surprisdd if they could deliver anywhere near their rates output.
As for the egines I'd be very surprisdd if they could deliver anywhere near their rates output.
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"Bis zur Veröffentlichung des Zwischenberichts konnten einzelne Datenträger ausgelesen werden. "
"Until the date of this report individual devices could be read out.
That would imply several devices could be read out.
This document is an interim accident report but,
https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV...B-HOT_ZB_D.pdf
OAP
https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV...B-HOT_ZB_D.pdf
OAP
I have not read much of it yet but the first few pages look not bad.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mb...4agLS9VQ931JA_
I think that the link should work - I have tested it from a browser than was not logged on to google.
[1] https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/en/
On the basis that I might at least look at the pictures I used google translate against the Figure captions before I found onlinedoctranslator.
These seem in some cases clearer than those in the whole doc translation I linked to above.
Figure 1: Wing section with the 4 bars (Source: Operating Instructions Ju 52 / 3m, supplemented
by the SUST)
Figure 2: Motor mount of the left or right motor (Source: Operating instructions
Ju 52 / 3m)
Figure 3: Maintenance program of the Ju 52
The engines had a maximum allowable according to the maintenance program
Operating time to overhaul (Time Between Overhaul - TBO) of 1500
Hours with a tolerance of 10%. In the operating manual of the aircraft engine
The manufacturer's BMW 132 from 1939 states the following: «One
Overhaul should rarely be required before 200 to 300 hours of operation ».
Figure 4: Accident site southwest of Piz Segnas. A mesh square has one side length
of a kilometer. Source of the base map: Federal Office of Topography.
Figure 5: End position of the wreck
Figure 6: Repair in the area of the wing center box, recognizable by the greenish yellow
Structural parts and the golden connection elements.
Figure 7: Repair of the structure of a motor carrier. The half shells became direct
riveted on the thick paint layer.
Figure 8: Lower spar tube of spar I of the left wing. The arrow points to the zone
with cracks in the spar tube.
Figure 9: Detailed view of the crack zone at the lower spar tube of the left wing.
Figure 10: Detail view of the inner side of the lower side of the left wing.
Figure 11: Detail view of the cabin structure at the rear right. Striking are the rotten ones
Wooden floor (yellow marked zone) and the corrosion damage (red arrows).
Figure 12: Corrosion in the area of the wing connection (red arrows)
Figure 13: Marked aging damage on a hose
Figure 14: Fuel hose with date (November 11, 1988)
Figure 15: Cylinder positions 1, 2 and 3 of the left engine with piston.
Figure 16: Cam of the middle motor. The machining marks are clearly visible
(regular, finely grooved surface) and the eruptions on the upper tread.
Figure 17: Engine components stored in a cabinet and not identifiable.
These seem in some cases clearer than those in the whole doc translation I linked to above.
Figure 1: Wing section with the 4 bars (Source: Operating Instructions Ju 52 / 3m, supplemented
by the SUST)
Figure 2: Motor mount of the left or right motor (Source: Operating instructions
Ju 52 / 3m)
Figure 3: Maintenance program of the Ju 52
The engines had a maximum allowable according to the maintenance program
Operating time to overhaul (Time Between Overhaul - TBO) of 1500
Hours with a tolerance of 10%. In the operating manual of the aircraft engine
The manufacturer's BMW 132 from 1939 states the following: «One
Overhaul should rarely be required before 200 to 300 hours of operation ».
Figure 4: Accident site southwest of Piz Segnas. A mesh square has one side length
of a kilometer. Source of the base map: Federal Office of Topography.
Figure 5: End position of the wreck
Figure 6: Repair in the area of the wing center box, recognizable by the greenish yellow
Structural parts and the golden connection elements.
Figure 7: Repair of the structure of a motor carrier. The half shells became direct
riveted on the thick paint layer.
Figure 8: Lower spar tube of spar I of the left wing. The arrow points to the zone
with cracks in the spar tube.
Figure 9: Detailed view of the crack zone at the lower spar tube of the left wing.
Figure 10: Detail view of the inner side of the lower side of the left wing.
Figure 11: Detail view of the cabin structure at the rear right. Striking are the rotten ones
Wooden floor (yellow marked zone) and the corrosion damage (red arrows).
Figure 12: Corrosion in the area of the wing connection (red arrows)
Figure 13: Marked aging damage on a hose
Figure 14: Fuel hose with date (November 11, 1988)
Figure 15: Cylinder positions 1, 2 and 3 of the left engine with piston.
Figure 16: Cam of the middle motor. The machining marks are clearly visible
(regular, finely grooved surface) and the eruptions on the upper tread.
Figure 17: Engine components stored in a cabinet and not identifiable.
Figure 3: Maintenance program of the Ju 52
The engines had a maximum allowable according to the maintenance program
Operating time to overhaul (Time Between Overhaul - TBO) of 1500
Hours with a tolerance of 10%. In the operating manual of the aircraft engine
The manufacturer's BMW 132 from 1939 states the following: «One
Overhaul should rarely be required before 200 to 300 hours of operation ».
The engines had a maximum allowable according to the maintenance program
Operating time to overhaul (Time Between Overhaul - TBO) of 1500
Hours with a tolerance of 10%. In the operating manual of the aircraft engine
The manufacturer's BMW 132 from 1939 states the following: «One
Overhaul should rarely be required before 200 to 300 hours of operation ».
- why did they run those very old engines when much better options are available (while keeping with original / vintage JU 52 specs) ? Is there something unique about those ?
- they had respectively 946:50 h, 1153:11 h and 457:49 h since TCO - seems a lot (even if formally within tolerance).
- This is not looking too good
- overall it would seem that these airplanes were not maintained to top standards, so there would be a suspicion that the engines were probably not able to deliver rated power
Last edited by atakacs; 22nd Nov 2018 at 19:56. Reason: typos
Due to the severe loss of life in this accident, I expect that the final report will be comprehensive. At this stage, with the interim report to guide us, it seems that there might be considerable comment upon the regulation and operation of these aircraft. As for the cause of the accident, I am afraid that it must be pure speculation at this time.
As a point of interest, it should be understood that the internal condition and visual appearance of a high time large capacity piston aero-engine can be disappointing and somewhat dirty. However, the true condition can easily be determined by examination and measurement. Of equal interest to me in this instance, is the precise flying performance of the aircraft and its engines and how it was licensed to operate.
There does not seem to be any guidance on the likely time that the final report will be published, can any member help with an estimate from the Swiss authorities on this please?
OAP
As a point of interest, it should be understood that the internal condition and visual appearance of a high time large capacity piston aero-engine can be disappointing and somewhat dirty. However, the true condition can easily be determined by examination and measurement. Of equal interest to me in this instance, is the precise flying performance of the aircraft and its engines and how it was licensed to operate.
There does not seem to be any guidance on the likely time that the final report will be published, can any member help with an estimate from the Swiss authorities on this please?
OAP
There does not seem to be any guidance on the likely time that the final report will be published, can any member help with an estimate from the Swiss authorities on this please?
OAP
OAP
Last edited by clearedtocross; 22nd Nov 2018 at 19:00.
If the investigators know for sure what was not the cause they must have a pretty good idea what the real causes and its contributing factors were. Otherwise they would remain much more fuzzy. And they just reported airwortiness issues, but not how it was possible that they remained uncorrected for quite a while. I refrain from expanding my own conclusions on this.
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... and, by inference, all the above exacerbated by weight shift - passengers moving from one side of the cabin to the other, from front of cabin to the rear, drawn by a view of a mountain? a photo-opportunity?
The foto in this post shows the situation when you want to cross the Segnes-Pass at 9200ft (600ft more than the Pass). Sorry guys, I am fogged in in low IMC, so this picture is screenshot from my sim. The Pass is above the ASI and the little lake. The famous Martinsloch (not visible in the sim) is below the peak left of the pass and the place the aircraft crashed is south of the lake. To the right (compass) is Piz Segnes and to the left the mountains extend towards the Vorab region. Not much space to turn around if you get a downdraft from the North.
A skydiving aircraft crashed around here about 30 years ago when the pilot lost control and stalled due to the rapidly changing weight and CG while the skydivers were doing their thing. It's been long enough that I don't recall details, but there were several fatalities.
Perhaps a Vortex Stalled the Airplane
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Ju 52 crash video
Just guessing, but 1) owing to the direct impact on the leading edges (no cartwheeling) the wings seem to have maintained a certain amount of structural integrity. See post-crash pix.
Plus 2), I believe the Ju52 fuel tanks are discrete "barrels" (7 per side) lined up down the wing centerline with a meter or more of "crush-zone" in front of/behind them, and may not have been breached.
Plus 2), I believe the Ju52 fuel tanks are discrete "barrels" (7 per side) lined up down the wing centerline with a meter or more of "crush-zone" in front of/behind them, and may not have been breached.
What a shame, beautiful old bird, tragic loss of life. It would be a shame if events like this limit the use of old aircraft.
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They have already. Their other two Jus are grounded until further notice. Maintenance and structure of the accident bird have been found to be below expectations.
If you use oldies like these airline style you might consider building new ones or take something like Baslers, Twotters or Do 228s instead.
If you use oldies like these airline style you might consider building new ones or take something like Baslers, Twotters or Do 228s instead.