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4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland

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4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland

Old 5th Aug 2018, 11:33
  #21 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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A later comment from the site linked in the original post.

“Cable/Rope and NOTAM
By (anonymous) on Sunday, Aug 5th 2018 07:55Z

As one of the installers of the cable mentioned in this report i can ensure you, that the incident is unrelated. We watched the plane fly by high above us and heard the crash loud and clear. The cable was not installed at the time of the incident. Regards”

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Old 5th Aug 2018, 12:37
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Ohhh.. So tragic. Tried to book a flight on one of Lufthansas Ju52s 3 years ago.
180 turn away from rising ground ? Possible adverse gradient wind... Large span aircraft at low speed. Not unlikely inner tip stalled
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 12:43
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I'm really wondering about that 180. If they actually completed it (it would seem so) a subsequent stall is somewhat odd...
I guess there was no flight recorder of any type fitted. As mentioned by others on board shots are a distinct possibility.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 12:48
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Swiss police confirms all 20 on board are dead.
RIP. A sad day for historical aviation.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 12:48
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Just posted on the BBC & Sky news ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45076060

https://news.sky.com/story/all-20-pe...-alps-11462086
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:25
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https://ibb.co/h0T83z

Looks like trailing smoke or fuel behind the right hand engine. Attitude looks almost stalled?
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:40
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Reported online by BBC,
"Based on the situation at the crash site we can say that the aircraft smashed into ground almost vertically at relatively high speed," said Daniel Knecht of the Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board.

"What we can rule out at this point is that there had been a collision before the crash, neither with another aircraft nor with some other obstacle such as a cable."

Again, very sad to have the loss of life confirmed.

OAP
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:41
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From the BBC and Sky's photos, there was no fire, and it looks like the 3 engines have buried themselves in the soft ground: vertical impact.

Very sad. RIP.

Last edited by Rob Bamber; 5th Aug 2018 at 13:50. Reason: Incorrect information
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:44
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Pretty respectable Avherald has the right pictures. What do you mean by wrong crash?
Crash: Ju-Air JU52 at Piz Segnas on Aug 4th 2018, impacted terrain
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 13:46
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 14:29
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Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut View Post
https://ibb.co/h0T83z

Looks like trailing smoke or fuel behind the right hand engine. Attitude looks almost stalled?
Looks like the mountain in the background. I see no smoke.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 15:07
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The smoke statement came from Swiss TV.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 15:25
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I see the Avherald report notes a local weather station stating winds were from the North gusting up to 35 knots. Looking at the map provided in the same article showing the police indication of the crash site location, I'd imagine strong potential for lots of curl over, turbulence and downdraft in that area - though that would be something two experienced Swiss pilots would be very well aware of.

A very great shame & tragedy for those involved. The Tante Ju is an iconic aircraft of distinctive looks and sound.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 15:38
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Wind

No, this is not the true. The max gust at Crap (Rock) Masegn at the time was a Max of 48 kph Hourly gusts in the area



Originally Posted by biscuit74 View Post
I see the Avherald report notes a local weather station stating winds were from the North gusting up to 35 knots. Looking at the map provided in the same article showing the police indication of the crash site location, I'd imagine strong potential for lots of curl over, turbulence and downdraft in that area - though that would be something two experienced Swiss pilots would be very well aware of.

A very great shame & tragedy for those involved. The Tante Ju is an iconic aircraft of distinctive looks and sound.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 15:45
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A wind of even 35kph could still create a significant rotor effect downwind of a hole, slot or sharp ridge...
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 15:47
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The description of "almost vertical, at relatively high speed" seems very broad brush at such an early stage, and I am surprised that the official would say this. Certainly, there appears to be no recognisable wreckage trail and the aircraft seems to lie in a confined area. Due to the hard nature of the rock scree surface and its steep angle, I presume that the aircraft descended at a steep relative angle, either stalled/slow or in autorotation. Speed would seem to have been relatively slow, not high. The wing appears to be complete and the right engine in place. Despite the relative slow speed, the hard surface and a steep descent will have caused the heavy disruption of the forward fuselage structure. Very sad though, that Auntie Ju was not able to force land a little less forcefully.

OAP
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:01
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Originally Posted by Onceapilot View Post
...and I am surprised that the official would say this....
As I understand it there are several eyewitnesses. And "high speed" for such an aircraft is not the same as for a modern one. Even in a vertical dive it will hardly exceed 150...200kt.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:10
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Originally Posted by what next View Post
As I understand it there are several eyewitnesses. And "high speed" for such an aircraft is not the same as for a modern one. Even in a vertical dive it will hardly exceed 150...200kt.
Yes, and it wasn't going high speed IMO. That is why I am surprised he said it.

OAP
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:13
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Post 23 & 39 first image?

It may well just be coincidence that the aircraft has ended up underneath what appears to be the Martinsloch....?



Last edited by glad rag; 5th Aug 2018 at 23:04.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 16:31
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Originally Posted by Toryu View Post
The picture we're seeing on avherald has been shot with a telelens and only shows a narrow section of the surroundings. I'd say it's shot about 20 degrees downslope and thus gives the illusion of relatively flat terrain.

The german Wiki-article shows this picture of the crash-area landscape:


The crash-site would be between left of the two distinctive boulders in the center/ center-left of the picture.

They would have been flying upslope (to the right) this valley, probably trying to get over the pass:



Note: Since I can't post direct URLs now, you'll have to go the hard way, copy the links into your browser and edit-out the space between "h" and the rest of the link.

Can anybody confirm (or deny) this routing?
Re-posted with images.

Last edited by jimjim1; 5th Aug 2018 at 17:19.
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