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4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland

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4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland

Old 3rd Dec 2018, 07:38
  #301 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by A Squared View Post


I suppose. I’m obviously speaking from a US perspective. It’s hard for me to imagine a legal system under which one person can unilaterally sign away another person’s right to legal remedy for damages.
It is not only that, this paper waver is only good for acts of God or technical/mechanical failures, if it is pilot / maintenance error or negligence , it will not help you much either , and this in any Country I would say. But I am not a lawyer .
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 08:19
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jimjim1 View Post
These golden oldies should not be permitted to operate as passenger flights without it being entirely clear that they are not part of the same industry that delivered worldwide ZERO jet airliner fatalities in 2017.

The Touristy or Traveling public should not be misled.

There are times to extend the envelope and there are times to say NO!
Who misled them and when ? If you are a person allowed to vote (eg. above 18 years old), you should be able to work out that an airplane 80 years old can´t be as save as new one and a piston powered airplane is less save to travel in than a turbine powered one. Have not seen a single statement by any provider of these trips that would claim anything remotely close to what you imply.

Who made the pax on this flight say YES ? Were they forced to fly on this aircraft ? Of course not and you know that. So, whats your agenda ? More regulation, less freedom ? Forebid anything fun ?

Go ahead, you´re in line with the EU and almost all administrations in the world. Not sure I like this mindset. (actually I hate it, but...)

I have piloted trips in a D.H. Dove under German air law and we had to stop that after JAR OPS came in force. IMO there should be a statement possible to exclude the same amount of safety from such trips, as it is crystal clear that it could not be achieved. Even if the JU would have been build from scratch in 2017 - that most likely would have not changed anything in this case. IF we would be talking about a structural disintegration of some sort it`d maybe be different, but for the time being we aren´t. Or would you ban - e.g. - 737s when a crew mishandled them and killed passengers ? Of course you wouldn´t.

Last edited by His dudeness; 3rd Dec 2018 at 08:20. Reason: Spelling
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 10:26
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Totally agree, your Dudeness! The Swiss Regulator (FOCA/BAZL) is already threating with more control on oldtimers - instead of better controls of course. I am affected by this actionism because I own and fly a swiss registered oldtimer. I have been twice on a flight of Ju-Air and nobody boarding was misled into believing to fly with a modern aircraft. No oldtimer is dangerous because of its age if well maintained and piloted with its limits in mind and taking care of its idiosyncrasys. This aircraft did not crash because of age. And, as we are sadly aware, even brand new aircraft can be involved in accidents.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 11:27
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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Dudeness - they also have t think of people on the ground who may not have signed up to having an 80 year old 'plane flying over them and depositing large amounts of metal over the vicinity

Personally I'm with Terry Pratchett on this in general - you have freedom of choice but that includes the requirement to take the consequences of your actions. If I go to an Airshow I accept the risk I may be killed by an aircraft crashing - but that's a long way from, for example, the people driving on the main road and killed by the Hunter crash in the UK a couple of years back...............
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 11:42
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Dudeness - they also have t think of people on the ground who may not have signed up to having an 80 year old 'plane flying over them and depositing large amounts of metal over the vicinity

Personally I'm with Terry Pratchett on this in general - you have freedom of choice but that includes the requirement to take the consequences of your actions. If I go to an Airshow I accept the risk I may be killed by an aircraft crashing - but that's a long way from, for example, the people driving on the main road and killed by the Hunter crash in the UK a couple of years back...............
Well, what if BA 038 would have crashed half a mile earlier ? Is it really 100% safe to fly A380s over London ? Or Paris ? Now, we most likely agree that the probability is way smaller, however, we also allow oldtimer cars in todays traffic. With drum - brakes and no ABS. Bicycles have brakes that are way less effective than, say, car brakes. Yet they are in todays traffic, in growing numbers. Where exactly do you draw the line ? Lastly I think you deliberately compare apples and oranges. The JUs accident has NO parallel whatsoever with the 'accident' of the Hunter, when we set aside advanced age of the aircraft. Unless we find out the JU was involved in acrobatics, which I seriously doubt. Airshows ? Who accepts risks in Airshows ? Nobody does nowadays, thats why there are less and less of em. They get killed by H&S (or the nanny state, if you prefer)
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