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Aeromexico Crash

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Aeromexico Crash

Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:30
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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It's long past the time when certificating authorities should do a proper evac test. By this I mean brief the test passengers, a mix of ages and mobility, and brief them with cash prizes for first ones off, factored for position on aircraft of course, but also brief ONLY a smaller percentage of a VERY healthy additional bounty if they get their bags off too. $$$ talks, and such a staged Evac would be absolutely fascinating to watch....
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:36
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
From the photo, the marks on the ground go from the aircraft to the end of the runway, it doesn't appear to have become airborne, which is probably why the aircraft remained intact.
This video shows separated engine abeam first TDZ marking, so we are looking at minimum 500 m ground slide after the wing-engine separation has been achieved. I'd say that by the time engines decided they had enough on-wing time, main gear was either gone or retracted.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:37
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sailvi767 View Post
Big thunderstorm, marble sized hail with gusty winds. Sounds a lot like a setup for a classic wind shear or microburst.
That's what I thought as well.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:46
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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FlightGlobal reporting "engine failure at or around V1".
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:48
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Almost litteral translation of the statement of the (non illiterate, surely wealthy) passenger inteviewed on video of post#17

"The AC was all OK for TO, run in conditions "with good wind for TO" but when a little aloft (apparently) a sudden gust of wind made it (the AC) to "go back down" and don't TO, then crossed the limits of the runway (supposedly a side of the RW) for ABOUT 2-3 kilometres [1&half miles] --*--
Me (the pax), this man (gesture signaling somebody out of sight in the video) and "la seńora" (this meaning "my wife") were seated in BUSSINES (says clase PREMIER) so we could go out "that fast", but all the move (evac procedure) was made in 3-4 minutes until all the junk got fire ("comenzar a explotar").

--*-- Considering the lenght of Durango's RW (9200 ft/2800mt) this measurement is almost accurate taking in account the final position of the AC


Note: the pax (in the video) DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING about any storm, hail, rain or anything related to atmospheric bad conditions as a cause for the accident. Only says "strong wind".

Last edited by guadaMB; 1st Aug 2018 at 08:53. Reason: add a note
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 08:57
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Well having read the whole thread, I'm going to go ahead and add my speculation.

If everybody ends up walking away from that there will have been:

a lot of luck involved

and, any number of hero's.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 09:05
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Weather in Durango (at the moment of TO)

Until CCTV cameras from the airport (surely THERE ARE) show the exact moment of the TO, it's not sure to talk about "heavy rain, hail & etc".

In the video of post #17 can be seen a ditch with a generous (but not an ocean) amount of water at the back of the interview. Muddy water: this means +/- recent rain.

In the video of post #42 (the ride of an airport's car along the RW, no real date/time of recording) doesn't show traces of a BIG RAIN. Asphalt shows to be slightly WET in some areas, but no "pools" as sign of a recent shower
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 09:26
  #48 (permalink)  


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Originally Posted by RVF750 View Post
It's long past the time when certificating authorities should do a proper evac test. By this I mean brief the test passengers, a mix of ages and mobility, and brief them with cash prizes for first ones off, factored for position on aircraft of course, but also brief ONLY a smaller percentage of a VERY healthy additional bounty if they get their bags off too. $$$ talks, and such a staged Evac would be absolutely fascinating to watch....
An "interesting" thought about tests, but how could that affect "real life"?
Would "automatic locking overheads" help, or would they cause more evac delays as pax struggled trying to get them open?
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 09:59
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ONE GREEN AND HOPING View Post
Have only speed-read all the above, but sometimes it can be a nasty shock at VR to realise something got missed out on the check list....like flaps or reduced thrust settings. A bit early to run out of fuel...We'll just have to wait and see
Not wanting to say that can't be a factor but it would require at least a bigger mistake in setting up the take-off in the MCDU as the E-Jets will not accept empty take-off settings (defaulting to max thrust) and warn if the flap setting is different from the one set on the take-off data pages.

Not familiar with characteristics of this type of engine and hot and high operations, though.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:53
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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ALPINE FLYER........I suppose I was thinking about that four engined Airbus that left somewhere in Australia for the Middle East having set a too low assumed temperature - or what ever system they used for less than rated t/o thrust. They got airborne ok that time, but not without collecting a few twigs and airport souvenirs in the process. My last modern type was the 744 twenty years ago, so I'm not up to date with technology. When I began as junior trash, it was a case of working speedily through several fine printed pull-out graphs with added interpolations and corrections. Ironically it was probably simpler to avoid gross errors than reading off numbers from a table and twiddling knobs.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 13:27
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Old Fat: I retired from 25+ years as an accident investigator and have concluded, among other things, that--by far--most aviation luck is good. Unfortunately there are always exceptions.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 15:14
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Some pax reports from media articles:

“We took off—it was pouring rain—honestly I thought ‘why in the world are we even taking off,’” Dorelia Rivera of Elmwood Park said.

Rivera was on the plane with nine other from Chicago, she said. She talked to NBC 5 from the hospital in Durango, Mexico.

“Within a couple minutes the plane just started shaking,” she said. “We heard a loud noise behind us—and the next thing we knew it was starting to smoke and fire.”

...Alberto Herrera, who was also on the plane, said he was with Sanchez after the crash."We said a prayer for everybody on board. There was like 20 of us, we didn’t know if everybody got out we were just hoping for the best that everybody got out," he told NBC 5 Wednesday morning.

Herrera said he could feel "insane" winds as the plane took off. But all he could do was "hope for the best" as it came back to the ground.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...489685751.html


It felt like the aircraft was battling the heavy rain and wind before it hit the ground twice during the crash, said Anabel Estrada, a passenger from Joliet, Illinois."The second impact was a lot stronger. This is when I jumped and hit my head against the ceiling," Estrada said. "After the second impact, I saw flames in the cabin ahead of me."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/ameri...ngo/index.html

Alberto Herrero, from Chicago, told NBC’s "Today" that he escaped from the rear emergency exit of the plane and helped others climb out behind him as the cabin filled with black smoke.

“As we were taking off … we ended hitting a hailstorm that caused a lot of turbulence. As we were starting our ascent … it just brought us back down," he recalled. “I have felt turbulence before but this time it was different."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/a...rvived-n896431
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 15:52
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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There is a video of the takeoff run on AvHerald.
Scary......
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 16:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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I am assuming the actual aircraft in question

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Old 1st Aug 2018, 16:04
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVF750 View Post
It's long past the time when certificating authorities should do a proper evac test. By this I mean brief the test passengers, a mix of ages and mobility, and brief them with cash prizes for first ones off, factored for position on aircraft of course, but also brief ONLY a smaller percentage of a VERY healthy additional bounty if they get their bags off too. $$$ talks, and such a staged Evac would be absolutely fascinating to watch....
The very approach, including the cash bonuses but also setting off smoke, that you mention was abandoned when it was found that about 1 in 10-20 of such evac test participants suffered a serious injury (which probably reflects reality itself, but whatever). On one of the last such tests done on a widebody in the US, a volunteer was paralysed for life.

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-11-...vacuation-test

Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 19:24
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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I retired from 25+ years as an accident investigator and have concluded, among other things, that--by far--most aviation luck is good.
True... though most incidents I have seen over the last 42 years involved the pushing of that luck.... right up until it ran out.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 20:14
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ONE GREEN AND HOPING View Post
ALPINE FLYER........I suppose I was thinking about that four engined Airbus that left somewhere in Australia for the Middle East having set a too low assumed temperature - or what ever system they used for less than rated t/o thrust. They got airborne ok that time, but not without collecting a few twigs and airport souvenirs in the process. My last modern type was the 744 twenty years ago, so I'm not up to date with technology. When I began as junior trash, it was a case of working speedily through several fine printed pull-out graphs with added interpolations and corrections. Ironically it was probably simpler to avoid gross errors than reading off numbers from a table and twiddling knobs.
Slightly OT, but no system is fool-proof obviously, and there are ways to mess up the Embraer's performance calcs for sure.

I'm with you on the speed advantage of the graphs, for a regional jet operating on non-limiting runways most calculations were as simple as checking that max. FLEX was possible and reading off three V speeds. Now we type lots of data into a computer to get much more accurate results in much more time. There are error messages to warn you of potentially inconsistent data but some of them (such as GW < MZFW) pop up for every calculation which results in them being clicked away as a matter of routine.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 21:01
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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testing for a new member!
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 21:43
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by speedbirdconcorde View Post
I am assuming the actual aircraft in question
Yes, the comments on YouTube make it clear that it is.

Though the title, courtesy of Avherald, "Aeromexico Connect E190 at Durango on Jul 31st 2018, overran runway on rejected takeoff" doesn't seem to be supported by the content.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 22:00
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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It is possible the gear had started to retract, the aircraft had definitely got airborne. Remember what happened in DXB with the EK 777. Potentially similar result despite that being lack of thrust and returning to earth, and this one being that or wind shear. Would explain the engines location.
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