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And then there was only one

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And then there was only one

Old 18th Jul 2018, 22:13
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And then there was only one

It's getting there
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 22:18
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Just in time to save beleaguered Airline management who in the last decades have presided over a continued reduction of terms and conditions.

Nice of the cabal to pump out the effluent now! Must be contract season!

Put far more faith in outcome and substantially less in words.

Last edited by Rated De; 18th Jul 2018 at 22:33.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 03:38
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Surely this is only a stalking horse for the longer term goal of fully autonomous operation.
A single pilot concept has to have provisions for the potential incapacitation of that person. Logically that means a pilotless design with a pilot extension. Just doubt that either the systems designs or the ATC infrastructure will be be ready by the 2023 date suggested.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 08:38
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One topic I have not seen address in this discussion of single pilot air transport operations is how to train new "captains". Lets face it, the technology has been here for some time to design a cockpit around a single pilot. The current design is required by regulatory authorities. It didn't take long to redesign cockpits to remove the flight engineer station.

So one of the most important roles of the FO is to learn the technical / non technical skills and decision making which can take many years to develop. I can see single pilot operations being the saviour of the bean counters for about 15-20 year. Then they will wake up one day and say we have to go pilotless otherwise we have to shut down!! (maybe thats the plan??).
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:01
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Quote: "Then they will wake up one day and say we have to go pilotless otherwise we have to shut down!! (maybe that's the plan??)."

Of course that's the plan.

Then the head FA becomes "Captain"! At half the salary.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:22
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My god, and all of this mess in order to save the money of paying a FO? Couldn't they just focus on saving money with other methods (or perhaps 1 or 2 less cabin crew instead of jeopardizing flight safety)?
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:41
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Originally Posted by superflanker View Post
My god, and all of this mess in order to save the money of paying a FO? Couldn't they just focus on saving money with other methods (or perhaps 1 or 2 less cabin crew instead of jeopardizing flight safety)?
Or just charge what the flight is really worth instead of being slaves to the cut, cut, cut mantra. The lack of imagination indicates that it is management that should be automated in my view.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 09:57
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The lack of imagination indicates that it is management that should be automated in my view.
I've been thinking along those lines for a long time
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 10:16
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Originally Posted by superflanker View Post
My god, and all of this mess in order to save the money of paying a FO?
I thought the bussiness was in charging them heaps of money to take that seat.

Last edited by iggy; 19th Jul 2018 at 10:18. Reason: Typo
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 15:24
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Are there any stats floating around about pilot incapacitation? I would have thought it would be fairly regular globally ( like every second week) because I’ve known 4 guys that have become incapacitated while flying a jet and I don’t know that many people.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 15:32
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I suspect that one day, once FedEx, UPS et al prove to the world that unmanned freighters can fly safely around the world, airline pilots will go the same way as Flight Engineers, Navigators, Wireless Operators, Observers etc etc etc.

Air Gunners may stage a come-back ironically. One day I might be persuaded to get on a plane without pilots, but definitely not one without an Air Marshall!!!
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 17:35
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Are FedEx in the habit of using brand new, latest tech, for their freighters?
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 18:10
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Originally Posted by framer View Post
Are there any stats floating around about pilot incapacitation? I would have thought it would be fairly regular globally ( like every second week) because I’ve known 4 guys that have become incapacitated while flying a jet and I don’t know that many people.
As far as I can remember the regulatory objective is 1% per year for pilots on multi-pilot ops and 0.1% for single-pilot commercial air transport.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 18:14
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Originally Posted by superflanker View Post
My god, and all of this mess in order to save the money of paying a FO? Couldn't they just focus on saving money with other methods (or perhaps 1 or 2 less cabin crew instead of jeopardizing flight safety)?
There in lies the rub. It is easier to chase constant cost cutting than to draw a line where we treat people with respect and instead try to sell the airline or service on its merits.

On a separate note to address the article, the Germanwings incident is not a good reason to maintain two crew. That wasn't sufficient to overcome the threat. It also is not beneficial to look at a person model of fallibility, rather to consider the system model. The copilot was recruited with a known history of psychotic depressive episodes and prevented from taking medication to retain his medical certificate. Recruitment and continued oversight failed - a failure of the system. The system relies on self reporting, in this case by an individual who had impaired judgement and everything to lose - a failure of the system. Finally the medical practitioner consulted by the copilot prior to the accident had significant guidance on how they would breach a patients confidentiality rights, but very little guidance as to when it would be permissible to do so in the interest of public safety - again, a system failing.

System designers are human and will make errors and systems inherently contain error traps and latent errors. Human fallibility can cause errors also, but human variability can prevent incidents. I believe a combination of systems supporting humans, and humans backing up systems still presents the best layers of defence against threats.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 20:01
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It .Really pains me to write this but the last 30 years have proved conclusively that airlines can't sell the product "on it's merits".

The SLF always go on price... SQ were /are the last people to be able to genuinely charge extra because of their service and standards. They can still manage maybe 5% over but more than that... no

People would board a plane piloted by a monkey if they got 50% off I'm afraid

It's v v depressing.'..
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:06
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Originally Posted by er340790 View Post
Air Gunners may stage a come-back ironically. One day I might be persuaded to get on a plane without pilots, but definitely not one without an Air Marshall!!!
With an automated aircraft having no flight deck door and control only from the ground, won't that actually improve security?
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:16
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With regards pilotless aircraft, won’t happen until they are completely unhackable and unjammable, GPS is easily jammed or downgraded as anyone flying near Syria at the moment will know and computers are easily hacked, I just don’t see it happening the risks are just too high.

With regards single pilot operations, what training will the pilot need? Straight out of L3 with 300 hours onto a passenger jet? Or will they require let’s say 3-5 years of On The Job training sitting in a second seat in the flightdeck being called.. I don’t know a First Officer???
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 14:01
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“You can see the drivers from both angles,” said Graham Braithwaite, Director of Transport Systems at Britain’s Cranfield University.
Or not, as the case may be.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 17:08
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
With an automated aircraft having no flight deck door and control only from the ground, won't that actually improve security?
until the building is stormed and the terrorists suddenly have access to an entire airborne fleet.....
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 03:53
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Until the manufacturers actually commit to building, and the airlines commit to buying a single pilot aircraft then it is still some tech-nerds fantasy.
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