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Article about PPRUNE from 2008

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Article about PPRUNE from 2008

Old 17th Mar 2018, 20:40
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Article about PPRUNE from 2008

Not sure why this just showed up on the Google search...

The Professional Pilots' Rumour Network is a publicly accessible online forum where airline pilots discuss their work. So if you want to maintain the belief that you are in safe hands, warns Oliver Burkeman, stay as far away from it as possible


If you are made nervous by the idea that flight is an imperfect business, no less beset by human error and infighting and dysfunctional personalities than any other line of work, you should definitely avoid the Professional Pilots' Rumour Network (PPRuNe), an online forum which is, perhaps surprisingly, publicly accessible at PPRuNe.org. But if you ignore this advice and visit anyway, you may find it difficult to leave. The site's existence is hardly a secret: it's been around since the turn of the millennium, and its members are regularly quoted by journalists seeking insider reactions to crashes, near-misses and air-rage incidents.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...1/transport.uk
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 21:25
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I don't know why PPRuNe is so scary for non-professionals
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 23:02
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Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
I don't know why PPRuNe is so scary for non-professionals
Because people don't want to see themselves flying aeroplanes.... They want to believe human nature has been culled during flight school.

Last edited by CurtainTwitcher; 18th Mar 2018 at 00:13. Reason: grammar
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 04:29
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I find it reassuring. Some pretty dire stuff happens occasionally but everyone learns from it and my next flight is hopefully safer as a result. It's why I can still fly despite watching all those documentaries about aircraft crashes.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 09:46
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Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
I don't know why PPRuNe is so scary for non-professionals
It's not as bad as twitter, reading the pages of some of the pilots on there quickly dispels the myth that pilots are highly intelligent and well disciplined people. It's somewhat disturbing what some, especially the new generation of, pilots are like.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 11:29
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Originally Posted by Nemrytter View Post
It's not as bad as twitter, reading the pages of some of the pilots on there quickly dispels the myth that pilots are highly intelligent and well disciplined people. It's somewhat disturbing what some, especially the new generation of, pilots are like.
That is assuming everybody on PPRuNe is a professional pilot.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 11:43
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Originally Posted by sleeper View Post
That is assuming everybody on PPRuNe is a professional pilot.
An assumption probably as risky as assuming everyone on Fleet Street is a professional journalist...
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 11:59
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Originally Posted by sleeper View Post
That is assuming everybody on PPRuNe is a professional pilot.
I was talking about twitter.
Also, I think this modification to your comment is more appropriate:
That is assuming anybody on PPRuNe is a professional pilot.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 12:21
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Journalists could learn a lot in Jet Blast.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 17:34
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Nuclear Power Industry Too

Originally Posted by St Hallett View Post
The medical profession has looked at and, I believe, adopted some of our very rigorous check, training and psychological assessment standards.
Following the Three Mile Island disaster, the nuclear power industry turned to pilot training professionals to learn how teach nuclear power operators how to deal with emergencies.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 21:20
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And a number of other industries (e.g, rail and oil & gas) are working to adapt the concepts of CRM, checklists and human factors awareness. All great stuff, so it is somewhat concerning to read the occasional post that indicates in some ways the industry seems to be going backwards regarding basic skills.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 01:28
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What an ignorant assessment. In fact, despite the surprising discovery that pilots are human, it ought to be reassuring to read just how much attention and detail is paid to safety by professional pilots (well, perhaps some countries excepted). Passengers have little idea how many SOPS are in place for even the most rare emergencies, and just how “boring” their average flight is.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 02:58
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Originally Posted by Blake777 View Post
Passengers have little idea how many SOPS are in place for even the most rare emergencies, and just how “boring” their average flight is.
Back to my original comment above, all those accidents and brown trouser moments that weren't quite have all added to those SOPs to help stop repeats.

It's also a source of useful information, such as which airlines to avoid. Sometimes stated pretty clearly, other times just deduced from reading between the lines.
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Old 20th Mar 2018, 18:13
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Originally Posted by St Hallett View Post
I'd say that, in the West, we are still ahead of the medics when it comes to very demanding standards with no-one, no matter their rank, excused.
There is still a definite strata of hierarchy in medicine, but also an increased legalisation of both the decision making and reflection / review / serious impact assessment process that is actively at odds with the improvements in aviation.

You only have to look at the Bawa-Garba case in the UK to see both of these things. Her real-time dealings with he consultant in the case, who ultimately threw her under the bus, sounded spookily like some of the (up and down) status issues that CRM is intended to address. Much attention to individual's perceptions of their roles rather than the big picture of the right outcome for the patient.

The subsequent decisions that doctors' reflections on incidents, which they are supposed to use for learning and appraisal purposes, could be entered into evidence in court to prove neglect or negligence has had the immediate effect that doctors will now commit nothing to paper. This is a huge step backwards in the learning and improving process but, ultimately, if you make people afraid for their livelihoods, they will choose that.

From an SLF perspective, this is a fascinating forum, and for the most part resolutely unscary - apart from the occasional sense that there are clearly multiple ways to skin the cat of flying a particular aircraft type, given the pages of opinion about flight modes, switch settings, autopilot / throttle / etc behaviour, that perhaps leave one with the unnerving sense that something a little less complex may, in fact, be better all round.
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Old 21st Mar 2018, 18:40
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Quote: 'It's somewhat disturbing what some, especially the new generation of, pilots are like.'

Be careful! I suspect you may find that is a two-way street.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 04:27
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Originally Posted by underfire View Post
So if you want to maintain the belief that you are in safe hands, warns Oliver Burkeman, stay as far away from it as possible.
Something, something, like watching sausage being made. Etc.

Engineering was a lot like that as well.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 16:05
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"Some twenty years ago, as I was sitting in the House of Representatives of the Illinois legislature, watching its closing hours, a member who had never spoken during the entire session arose to address the House... He said: '...I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages—the less you know about the process the more you respect the result.'"
From 1898, so plus ca change, etc. Don't let the SLF know the real truth....
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