PPRuNe Forums


Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th Jul 2017, 15:40   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 92
Boy, it's noisy in here!

"Air India plane flies with wheels out, forced to land early"



Air India: AI plane flies with wheels out, forced to land early | India News - Times of India
Long Haul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 15:43   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 64
Posts: 3,187
Simply unbelievable!
galaxy flyer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 15:48   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 48
Posts: 2,502
Wow............ words totally fail me!!!
White Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 15:52   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 139
Retraining for the cabin maybe?
happybiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:09   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 491
You have got to be kidding. No way....
Remember Hapag LLoyd in Vienna?
fox niner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:14   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK/UAE
Posts: 503
I'd check to see where they got their licenses, or more to the point, if they even have one.
Monarch Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:19   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Isla Grande
Posts: 264
Sorry, sounds like utter BS to me.
gearlever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:32   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 64
Posts: 3,187
F9er,

Well, the Hapag Lloyd crew knew the gear was down and why it was, they didn't fuel plan for the eventuality and didn't recognize its effects. Us C-5 guys are intimately familiar with gear down flights, drag indices and noise, vibration effects.
galaxy flyer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:39   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Belfast
Posts: 55
Sounds like they don't like women pilots
Startledgrapefruit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:42   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 3,837
From the article linked above:

Quote:
"After take off, both the women pilots forgot to retract the landing gear. As a result, the brand new Airbus A-320 continued to ascend at a very low climb rate. The plane finally gave up climbing after reaching an altitude of 24,000 feet as the extended landing gear meant very heavy drag. It then levelled out (continued flying at 24,000 feet as opposed to the usually assigned level of 35-37,000 feet) and flew at 230 knots (426 kmph) for the next 1.5 hours," said a source.

Aircraft are designed to fly with minimum drag for enhanced fuel efficiency and extended range. Since AI 676 was flying at a much lower than the optimal level and that too with wheels out, it meant more fuel burn due to extra drag.

By the time the A-320 was near Nagpur, it was very low on fuel and the pilots decided to divert there as the plane could not have made it to Mumbai. "When preparing to land, they decided to lower the landing gear. At this point they realised that the wheels had been out all the while from Kolkata," said the source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarch Man View Post
I'd check to see where they got their licenses, or more to the point, if they even have one.
In some previous cases in India, the licenses were fraudulent, for example:

Quote:
CHENNAI/NEW DELHI: The licence of a woman pilot of no-frills airline IndiGo has been cancelled after she made a rough landing in Goa last month, endangering several lives and investigators later found she had allegedly faked papers to get her permit to fly.

"Yes, it (commercial pilot's licence) has been cancelled. We will file a police complaint soon against the pilot, Parminder Kaur Gulati," DGCA Director General Bharat Bhushan said.

DGCA sources said the pilot while flying the private Indigo airliner made a rough landing at Goa airport on January 11 using the nose wheel instead of the rear landing gear.

Investigations have revealed that she used the wrong technique several times, the sources said.

The sources said the incident came to light when the Airbus A-320 returned to Delhi from Goa and a routine inspection found that its nosewheel was damaged.

The investigators then analysed the data of the Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR) of the aircraft, which the sources claimed, showed that the lady captain had used the wrong landing technique that caused the nosewheel damage.

Following the probe, it was also found that the papers of Capt Gulati were not in order and enquiries into them showed that the documents, required for getting a flying license, were forged, the sources claimed.
Nose wheel landing: DGCA cancels pilot's licence - Times of India
Airbubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:54   #11 (permalink)

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 70
Posts: 2,360
Goodness Gracious Me.
Herod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:01   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lost again...
Posts: 421
I would have thought that the Airbus would have been screaming and shouting about the gear being in the wrong configuration!
OvertHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:04   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 16
Can an AB pilot explain how this is possible?

As a GA guy, I really have no idea what Airbus monitoring and automation is capable of. I am pretty sure there is a ground proximity warning if attempting landing when gear is up.

If so, similar warnings seem obvious...overspeed, exceeding speed for flaps, gear,etc.

Can an Airbus pilot walk us through the system warnings that were missed?
Zionstrat2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:16   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 44
Quite a tricky thing to do, I would imagine in a modern day airliner!
mftx7jrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:21   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: netherlands
Posts: 263
If, and if, the reporting is true it is unbelievable. Forgetting to raise the landing gear is, fair enough, a mistake that can happen, not professional and all but it can happen. It is the part afterwards that is astounding! No, or badly done, after take off checklist. Aircraft barely climbs, only reaches fl240, presumably on full power. They cruise like that for an hour and only after fuel is getting low they divert.

If things like that happen and your engines are working it screams "drag". Either flaps, gear or structural damage and you do not proceed towards your destination without knowing what it is.

There must be more to it than what is reported,
sleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:22   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 52
Posts: 808
I’m not a pilot, but I call BS on this. I can’t believe that a) there were no automated warnings, b) the pilots simply shrugged their shoulders and accepted the lack of performance, or c) that nobody noticed. I believe they have radar and ATC in India?
Andy_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:38   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: VA, USA
Age: 52
Posts: 497
FlightRadar24 track

Confirms the flight AI676 on July 22nd took off Kolkata and diverted to Nagpur.... then continued from Nagpur to Mumbai

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...ai676/#e30062e
GarageYears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:39   #18 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 92
I guess that someone who doesn't like women pilots could have made all this up and fed it to the newspaper; but if you believe Flight Aware, the flight departed on time, only climbed to FL 240, and arrived three hours late in Mumbai. To me that points to an unplanned stop. There are some technical malfunctions that would make you level off low, but in that case one would expect a longer delay as they fixed the airplane at the diversion airport. I have never seen an airplane with a "gear down when should be up" warning, the reasons being that having the gear down is safer than having it up, and that it is extremely obvious by the noise level, lack of climb performance and increased fuel burn. Not to mention the checklist. There is an "insufficient fuel" warning, however, which the crew thankfully dealt with.

Perhaps a gear pin was left in, that would also explain it.
Long Haul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:51   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,091
No-one has mentioned the 'After Takeoff Cx List.' Does this not include 'Gear Up'? If so, then it is more than a little forgetfulness, but a lack of Cx List discipline. It also exposes a lack of problem solving culture/philosophy/training. Problem: the a/c is not performing as expected; Why? En-route fuel checks, (issue that is an SOP) we are using too much fuel; Why? The vibration & noise is more than usual: why? So many questions should have been buzzing around the flight deck. There are supposed to be 2 brains up there. One might fail, but the back-up system should have been working. Good job they were not trying to climb over the Himalayas.

Does India have an alternative day to April 1st?
RAT 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jul 2017, 17:52   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dublin
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Haul View Post

Perhaps a gear pin was left in, that would also explain it.
if the pin is still there, why not go back to departure point and remove it? Why press on, burn large amounts of fuel and cause delays?
Martin_123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:50.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1