Is UK ATC Creaking at the seams?
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Is UK ATC Creaking at the seams?
I saw this report on ITN news tonight. I fear it is not journalistic licence (in general), as the CAA admit the existence of the reports.---------------
A worrying report suggests Britain's air traffic controllers have such an excessive workload that safety is being badly affected.
The reports have surfaced as millions prepare to take off on their summer holidays. The reports come from the National Air Traffic Control Centre at Swanwick in Hampshire which controls one of the busiest air-spaces in the world . Leaked internal documents contain evidence of increased delays and suspicion of near misses.
David Luxton of the air traffic controllers union told ITV News that on this evidence passengers are facing a bleak summer: "During the summer period I fear that delays are likely to get worse because of the shortage of air traffic controllers and the pressure on the system at the present time."
The air safety documents have been leaked to the magazine Computer Weekly. They show that the number of staff warning of potentially dangerous work overload in the first half of this year reached 44.
The internal reports show that in the last week of June flight delays totalled around 170,000 minutes. That is the equivalent of sixteen days.
The documents also reveal concern over near misses. In just one week of June four were suspected. It's thought two British Airways jets were brought close to collision carrying 350 passengers.
It is believed to have happened after the failure of a piece of safety equipment at Swanwick.
National Air Traffic Services said the use of that equipment had now been suspended.
Passenger groups are concerned. Bob Tolliday of the Consumers' Association told ITV news: "Already we've seen a number of strikes on the Continent. There's concern about the safety aspects of air traffic control around Europe and the figures that have been produced now seem to indicate that the trend is upwards".
Officials in charge of air traffic control have denied that safety has been compromised and said that the latest reports have yet to be fully investigated. --------------------
Well, The last paragraph strikes fear into me. Given the events of the last week in Switzerland. I have great respect for the ATC people in the UK. We all know that personal overload is a real and dangerous thing.
Who is going to be the first to die if this is not sorted out?
A worrying report suggests Britain's air traffic controllers have such an excessive workload that safety is being badly affected.
The reports have surfaced as millions prepare to take off on their summer holidays. The reports come from the National Air Traffic Control Centre at Swanwick in Hampshire which controls one of the busiest air-spaces in the world . Leaked internal documents contain evidence of increased delays and suspicion of near misses.
David Luxton of the air traffic controllers union told ITV News that on this evidence passengers are facing a bleak summer: "During the summer period I fear that delays are likely to get worse because of the shortage of air traffic controllers and the pressure on the system at the present time."
The air safety documents have been leaked to the magazine Computer Weekly. They show that the number of staff warning of potentially dangerous work overload in the first half of this year reached 44.
The internal reports show that in the last week of June flight delays totalled around 170,000 minutes. That is the equivalent of sixteen days.
The documents also reveal concern over near misses. In just one week of June four were suspected. It's thought two British Airways jets were brought close to collision carrying 350 passengers.
It is believed to have happened after the failure of a piece of safety equipment at Swanwick.
National Air Traffic Services said the use of that equipment had now been suspended.
Passenger groups are concerned. Bob Tolliday of the Consumers' Association told ITV news: "Already we've seen a number of strikes on the Continent. There's concern about the safety aspects of air traffic control around Europe and the figures that have been produced now seem to indicate that the trend is upwards".
Officials in charge of air traffic control have denied that safety has been compromised and said that the latest reports have yet to be fully investigated. --------------------
Well, The last paragraph strikes fear into me. Given the events of the last week in Switzerland. I have great respect for the ATC people in the UK. We all know that personal overload is a real and dangerous thing.
Who is going to be the first to die if this is not sorted out?
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Re: Is UK ATC Creaking at the seams?
Officials in charge of air traffic control have denied that safety has been compromised and said that the latest reports have yet to be fully investigated. --------------------
Well, The last paragraph strikes fear into me. Given the events of the last week in Switzerland. I have great respect for the ATC people in the UK. We all know that personal overload is a real and dangerous thing.
agree partially - if you are understaffed, you have to close sectors and reduce the rate. so, you "just" have more delays, but no safety issues. it gets dangerous if you are pushing up the rates to AVOID excessive delays. you have to stand the pressure from the airlines.
what happened in LSAZ was a whole chain of thing's which shouldn't have happened. as the controller had only 5 acft on freq, I think it would be wrong to blame staff shortage of this midair. in my opinion, it was a whole load of relatively small "bad lucks" and a pilot not following a RA, the latter one beeing the biggest link in the chain. i'm just wondering when and where the next midair will happen. and please note - i'm asking "when and where", and not "if"! :-(
cheers,
Well, The last paragraph strikes fear into me. Given the events of the last week in Switzerland. I have great respect for the ATC people in the UK. We all know that personal overload is a real and dangerous thing.
agree partially - if you are understaffed, you have to close sectors and reduce the rate. so, you "just" have more delays, but no safety issues. it gets dangerous if you are pushing up the rates to AVOID excessive delays. you have to stand the pressure from the airlines.
what happened in LSAZ was a whole chain of thing's which shouldn't have happened. as the controller had only 5 acft on freq, I think it would be wrong to blame staff shortage of this midair. in my opinion, it was a whole load of relatively small "bad lucks" and a pilot not following a RA, the latter one beeing the biggest link in the chain. i'm just wondering when and where the next midair will happen. and please note - i'm asking "when and where", and not "if"! :-(
cheers,
Controversial, moi?
Always impressed by the quality and standards of UK ATC having personally experienced ATC all over the world. Although I have recently been wondering whether by running 2.5 NM spacing at LHR and handling as much traffic as is physically possible they have made a rod for their own backs.
A little less willingness to be so accommodating might just have made somebody face the issues which are causing the problems - too many aeroplanes and too little airspace capacity.
Just a thought.
A little less willingness to be so accommodating might just have made somebody face the issues which are causing the problems - too many aeroplanes and too little airspace capacity.
Just a thought.
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dont know about overwork, but they seem to have some sort of ongoing comms problems, just come back from LGZA this pm and crossing london there were probs with 2 frequencies which needed the controller to call for radio checks and a change of frequency. Also I've noticed that we've been asked for radio checks a lot more than normal around the Salco are. Maybe just some teething probs with the new kit?
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APD should be GBP 75.00
Perhaps APD should be raised to GBP 75.00. That would soon put the brakes on the low cost sector and free up some capacity in the system. If the LCAs up their fleets by another 200 aircraft (as they keep telling us) in the near future, how is ATC supposed to cope ? 
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The situation over Britain's crowded skies is worrying indeed. There have been several cases the past few years when only the last chink in the armoury saved us from a mid-air collision (for example the fact that it was VMC when one 757 was directed to descend into another over Biggin a couple of years ago).
For some time I have seen it as not a case of if but when there is a serious mid-air in UK airspace, and I sincerely hope I am wrong about that.
The problems at Swanwick are not helping, but the problems would probably have been worse if West Drayton was still in use.
Do we really have to wait for the 'nightmare scenario' that we saw in Germany last week before people sit up and take notice?
"Officials in charge of air traffic control have denied that safety has been compromised ". Safety is compromised every time there is a loss of separation let alone a serious airprox incident.
We are asking too much of our controllers, they do a brilliant job, but every day that job becomes more and more difficult.
On the other hand, the stats show a 'record' low in airprox incidents last year, but does this include all incidents including low risk?
For some time I have seen it as not a case of if but when there is a serious mid-air in UK airspace, and I sincerely hope I am wrong about that.
The problems at Swanwick are not helping, but the problems would probably have been worse if West Drayton was still in use.
Do we really have to wait for the 'nightmare scenario' that we saw in Germany last week before people sit up and take notice?
"Officials in charge of air traffic control have denied that safety has been compromised ". Safety is compromised every time there is a loss of separation let alone a serious airprox incident.
We are asking too much of our controllers, they do a brilliant job, but every day that job becomes more and more difficult.
On the other hand, the stats show a 'record' low in airprox incidents last year, but does this include all incidents including low risk?
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WEDGE,
West Drayton is still very much in use. Only our en-route friends are at the fareham sanitorium whilst the spectacularly Understaffed and overworked Terminal Control remains in sunny WD. The delays publicised in recent days are no doubt real and don't expect things to improve in the near future. Despite the chronic staff shortages TC continues to shift the metal at the fastest and SAFEST rate we can manage. Yes, sometimes it gets too busy and using the "staff shortage" message for flow control restrictions does get the attention of those upstairs but the problem has been brewing for years and as you can imagine, Valid controllers do not grow on trees. The safety record of UK ATC is a testament to the professionalism of our ATCO's who continue to do a world class job in a complex environment where at times the airspace and controller's are pushed to the limits of their capacity. The last thing any of us want to see is a disaster in the UK but things must change with regard to staffing levels or one day, one of us will come unstuck.
West Drayton is still very much in use. Only our en-route friends are at the fareham sanitorium whilst the spectacularly Understaffed and overworked Terminal Control remains in sunny WD. The delays publicised in recent days are no doubt real and don't expect things to improve in the near future. Despite the chronic staff shortages TC continues to shift the metal at the fastest and SAFEST rate we can manage. Yes, sometimes it gets too busy and using the "staff shortage" message for flow control restrictions does get the attention of those upstairs but the problem has been brewing for years and as you can imagine, Valid controllers do not grow on trees. The safety record of UK ATC is a testament to the professionalism of our ATCO's who continue to do a world class job in a complex environment where at times the airspace and controller's are pushed to the limits of their capacity. The last thing any of us want to see is a disaster in the UK but things must change with regard to staffing levels or one day, one of us will come unstuck.
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Thanks for putting me right on West Drayton Vlad. Worrying tough it is that a UK controller concurs that the present situation is an accident waiting to happen.
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and there you have it folks....
It takes between 2.5 and 3 years to train someone to be a valid in the LTCC (West Drayton) or LACC (Swanwick) environments.
At present retirements FAR outstrip new validations, and this situation will not change for some YEARS. The pressure on the OPERATIONAL staff is immense, whilst the management just deny there is a problem or at best are economical with truth as regards to actual controller numbers. (they like to count non valid, non operational people in to get the numbers up)
Don't believe me? Check the Eurocontrol daily AFTM news. Staff shortages feature virtually EVERY day on EGTT delays.
Guess what? Controller morale is at rock bottom. Most popular shareware amongst us is a little program that calculates your actual working days until retirement. Me, I used to contribute a lot, both here and at NATS.... like many, I can't be bothered anymore. I still do the best job I can when at the radar, but as for anything over and above that, forget it, I'd rather go fishing. NATS management DO NOT CARE, so why should I?
Sad, isn't it, after 20 odd years but believe me, fishing is less stressful, and you don't have to listen to some management pillock lying to all and sundry and living off your efforts.
Gone fishin'
BEX
It takes between 2.5 and 3 years to train someone to be a valid in the LTCC (West Drayton) or LACC (Swanwick) environments.
At present retirements FAR outstrip new validations, and this situation will not change for some YEARS. The pressure on the OPERATIONAL staff is immense, whilst the management just deny there is a problem or at best are economical with truth as regards to actual controller numbers. (they like to count non valid, non operational people in to get the numbers up)
Don't believe me? Check the Eurocontrol daily AFTM news. Staff shortages feature virtually EVERY day on EGTT delays.
Guess what? Controller morale is at rock bottom. Most popular shareware amongst us is a little program that calculates your actual working days until retirement. Me, I used to contribute a lot, both here and at NATS.... like many, I can't be bothered anymore. I still do the best job I can when at the radar, but as for anything over and above that, forget it, I'd rather go fishing. NATS management DO NOT CARE, so why should I?
Sad, isn't it, after 20 odd years but believe me, fishing is less stressful, and you don't have to listen to some management pillock lying to all and sundry and living off your efforts.
Gone fishin'
BEX
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Is UK ATC Creaking at the seams?
All of us who have used it for years have to say yes to this one. Just listen to the guys issuing a constant stream of instructions with no pause in-between to reflect on what they’ve just said and pick up the mistakes when they didn’t quite say what they intended. In the last five years I’ve personally suffered twice from this and thankfully luck was with us – no rending of metal and bodies.
I would say we have some of the best, if not the best controllers in the world. They are able, intelligent and motivated. What I fear for is the future, when a privatised ATC drives down wages and days off so that they can only recruit second or third rate controllers. If our new ATC is going to be run with the flare and ability that characterises modern administration in Britain, anyone living under controlled airspace is going to need more than a tin hat.
All of us who have used it for years have to say yes to this one. Just listen to the guys issuing a constant stream of instructions with no pause in-between to reflect on what they’ve just said and pick up the mistakes when they didn’t quite say what they intended. In the last five years I’ve personally suffered twice from this and thankfully luck was with us – no rending of metal and bodies.
I would say we have some of the best, if not the best controllers in the world. They are able, intelligent and motivated. What I fear for is the future, when a privatised ATC drives down wages and days off so that they can only recruit second or third rate controllers. If our new ATC is going to be run with the flare and ability that characterises modern administration in Britain, anyone living under controlled airspace is going to need more than a tin hat.
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Firstly many thanks for all the generous comments about our work in the uk.
Yes, UK ATC is creaking at the seams.
Reason, nowhere near enough controllers to bolster the shrinking, disillusioned and undervalued numbers that currently sit in some of the hottest atc seats on the planet.
All the 'current' problems have been long predicted by many but there has been little if any effort made by those with the power to stave off the issues which are now putting atc and NATS in the news every other day.
I've been a controller in the Lon.TMA for about 5 years now and fings ain't wot dey used to be. Goodwill from the controllers (which has carried through massive sector increases and changes for free) has run out.
Despite what many outside atc and many above the likes of me may think, if the controllers are not on board then the ship will start to drift and sink. It is plainly obvious that process is well under way.
I think that the day to day job of controlling will still be done in the professional and efficient manner that we have all trained and qualified to operate in but - there just isn't enough of us and those remaining are losing interest through an ever increasing and more complex workload with nothing appealing on the horizon.
Yes, UK ATC is creaking at the seams.
Reason, nowhere near enough controllers to bolster the shrinking, disillusioned and undervalued numbers that currently sit in some of the hottest atc seats on the planet.
All the 'current' problems have been long predicted by many but there has been little if any effort made by those with the power to stave off the issues which are now putting atc and NATS in the news every other day.
I've been a controller in the Lon.TMA for about 5 years now and fings ain't wot dey used to be. Goodwill from the controllers (which has carried through massive sector increases and changes for free) has run out.
Despite what many outside atc and many above the likes of me may think, if the controllers are not on board then the ship will start to drift and sink. It is plainly obvious that process is well under way.
I think that the day to day job of controlling will still be done in the professional and efficient manner that we have all trained and qualified to operate in but - there just isn't enough of us and those remaining are losing interest through an ever increasing and more complex workload with nothing appealing on the horizon.
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One of the biggest problems as the massive increase in the no frills airlines.The expansion has come mostly at airports that were either quiet or on their knees so they were and are happy to let them add more and more flights.The problem is there is a lack of capacity once they are airborne(be it airspace or controllers)and that is where the strain is.
Serious management of this problem is required now or pay the penalty!
Serious management of this problem is required now or pay the penalty!
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So what can we do to remedy this situation? It is surely only a matter of time before disaster strikes. I think we can rest assured that the situation will consequently improve then.
That however is an unthinkable option. Anyone got any ideas how to kick the arses that matter before someone finds themselves dead.
Just thought. Does anyone know the email addresses of the people who make these decisions. transport secretaries, NATS executives etc. Perhaps we could organise a mass PPRuNe lobbying from ATC'ers and pilots.
That however is an unthinkable option. Anyone got any ideas how to kick the arses that matter before someone finds themselves dead.
Just thought. Does anyone know the email addresses of the people who make these decisions. transport secretaries, NATS executives etc. Perhaps we could organise a mass PPRuNe lobbying from ATC'ers and pilots.
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ATC CREAKING / CRACKING ??
What amazes me is, that no journo' has actually asked - not that NATS would give him the correct answer - of just how many ATCOs have deserted since privatisation ?!? The way things are going there will be many more following ! It is the guys and gals at the airports who suffer the brunt of pilot's frustration.
I get the impression Swanwick was opened as a political gesture - as it was obvious there were not enough staff.
To the RJ100 crew who sat for over an hour to go to Newcastle, all I can say is I'm embarassed - though on this occasion his company ops were the main cause of the problem.
Will things get better in the next month or so ? Unfortunately I doubt it !
I get the impression Swanwick was opened as a political gesture - as it was obvious there were not enough staff.
To the RJ100 crew who sat for over an hour to go to Newcastle, all I can say is I'm embarassed - though on this occasion his company ops were the main cause of the problem.
Will things get better in the next month or so ? Unfortunately I doubt it !
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as the controller had only 5 acft on freq, I think it would be wrong to blame staff shortage of this midair. in my opinion, it was a whole load of relatively small "bad lucks" and a pilot not following a RA,
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creaking at the seams? is the pope a catholic?
Of course it is, nerc, the new all singing, all dancing, wonder drug needs one third more controllers to work than the old centre. Management knew this and tried for god knows how long to get the staff - THEY FAILED, we now have a state of the art centre that has to close profitable sectors at night because of lack of staff, aircraft(ej145's) routing from egcc to eham at fl190 because of staff shortages and i have seen on one night shift an aircraft descend from the statosphere to fl190 to get around flow restrictions through dty airspace then climb again (this one was going to greece!!! )
TC is now v short staffed and getting shorter!, this summer don't expect to get anywhere in a hurry, what extra capacity we had is now being used to take all the a/c that have been level capped.
But the new pay deal will sort out our problems, I can see all of us rushing into work to grab that overtime and sell our leave to help our management out of this black hole
TC is now v short staffed and getting shorter!, this summer don't expect to get anywhere in a hurry, what extra capacity we had is now being used to take all the a/c that have been level capped.
But the new pay deal will sort out our problems, I can see all of us rushing into work to grab that overtime and sell our leave to help our management out of this black hole
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There's no getting around it. This is the way things are, and will be, for a long time to come.
We keep hearing about air traffic doubling by 2020. Hmmm...
Better get those A380's on the EGLL-EGPF route. But, ah, what level do you reckon you can make by Trent?
We keep hearing about air traffic doubling by 2020. Hmmm...
Better get those A380's on the EGLL-EGPF route. But, ah, what level do you reckon you can make by Trent?
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I'll have to add my tuppen'orth here.
I was one of those kicked out of NATS in the mid-nineties because I was "not up to the required standard", one of many on my course. Of those of us with usable ratings (I have 5) who got the boot, the majority are still in this industry due to the fact that non-NATS airfields saw the potential in us. One or two who became ATSA's were sent to airfields at a later date and are now valid ATCO's.
The training system at LATCC was based around the principle of the London buses ie never worry if the student doesn't make it, there'll be another two along in a minute. Now, the "training " management are reaping what they sowed a few years back - a shortage of staff caused by incompetant management and an unforgiving training system.
A few months ago, I was honoured to be present at Sarah & Alan Carey's wedding bash in Salisbury, and spoke to many people from both my own and other courses, all of whom encouraged me to re-apply to NATS. After some lengthy thought, I can honestly say that nothing in the world would be more unappealing than signing myself back into the asylum! If I do move again, it will be to another non-NATS regional like wot I am at now.
To all at Swanick, I know you are all doing a demanding job under difficult circumstances. Remember this, don't let the b***ard management get to you.
Good luck to you all (especially 83 course)!
I was one of those kicked out of NATS in the mid-nineties because I was "not up to the required standard", one of many on my course. Of those of us with usable ratings (I have 5) who got the boot, the majority are still in this industry due to the fact that non-NATS airfields saw the potential in us. One or two who became ATSA's were sent to airfields at a later date and are now valid ATCO's.
The training system at LATCC was based around the principle of the London buses ie never worry if the student doesn't make it, there'll be another two along in a minute. Now, the "training " management are reaping what they sowed a few years back - a shortage of staff caused by incompetant management and an unforgiving training system.
A few months ago, I was honoured to be present at Sarah & Alan Carey's wedding bash in Salisbury, and spoke to many people from both my own and other courses, all of whom encouraged me to re-apply to NATS. After some lengthy thought, I can honestly say that nothing in the world would be more unappealing than signing myself back into the asylum! If I do move again, it will be to another non-NATS regional like wot I am at now.
To all at Swanick, I know you are all doing a demanding job under difficult circumstances. Remember this, don't let the b***ard management get to you.
Good luck to you all (especially 83 course)!
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Blame the Americans
This all goes back half a century to when the UK invented the answer to all these problems and the Americans said we couldn't use it because they wanted to make a load of money off their vastly inferior VOR technology.
That invention was Decca (chorus of Rule Britannia) and if we had area navigation today there would be no air congestion and there wouldn't have been a mid-air over Germany.
Current ATC using airways and cb radio is astonshingly crude. It's only benefit is it would save the world if Aliens ever arrived. They'd take one look and decide we were too primitive to bother invading... 
That invention was Decca (chorus of Rule Britannia) and if we had area navigation today there would be no air congestion and there wouldn't have been a mid-air over Germany.
Current ATC using airways and cb radio is astonshingly crude. It's only benefit is it would save the world if Aliens ever arrived. They'd take one look and decide we were too primitive to bother invading...
That invention was Decca (chorus of Rule Britannia) and if we had area navigation today there would be no air congestion and there wouldn't have been a mid-air over Germany.
Just about every airliner can now arrive at point in space at a specific hieght, speed and TIME to a very high degree of precision if it gets airbourne at the right time. So in the 21st century what do we do?. We get airbourne having waited 40 minutes for a slot, fly 20-30 minutes down the road to LHR and then go into the hold for 20 minutes, great system, very well thought out!. Apart from waste of time and fuel it costs about £50 a minute to keep a medium size airliner in the sky and we are paying for this service as well.
We need an intergrated ATC system in Europe that is based not just on modern technology but on modern ideas as well. Come on you ATC chiefs and politcal types, get your act together.