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Oops! BA804 LHR>BLL slight mishap taxying in this morning ...

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Oops! BA804 LHR>BLL slight mishap taxying in this morning ...

Old 7th Feb 2017, 12:42
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Oops! BA804 LHR>BLL slight mishap taxying in this morning ...

G-EUPM unfortunately compromised after landing nice and early and then losing taxyway markings I guess on a slightly snowy morning in Denmark:

Passagerfly kÝrer af banen i Billund - TV 2

(as picked up by TV2 News in DK)
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 12:52
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British Airways plane 'slides' off Billund Airport runway in Denmark

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Old 7th Feb 2017, 14:20
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We had a bit of snow in DK this morning which as you can see, settled on car windscreens but it's naturally dispersed from windscreens and the road and grass now even though the temperature is -1C. I don't think that taxiway would have been exactly icy. As can be seen, the bus and a couple of cars don't seem troubled, but there's no doubt whatever that they'll have been on winter tyres

If the snow is anything like the snow we had 60 mile north of Billund, there may not even be much of a trace of snow at BLL right now despite the pervading -1 degree C temperature - it disappeared almost as fast as it arrived.

The FR24.com final track including taxy looks slightly dog legged around touchdown area but I don't suppose for one moment that's a very reliable angle or trace to make anything of. The last part of the recorded track does however tally with the final position i.e. near 'M', perpendicular to runway and facing it, having apparently exited 90 degrees to the taxiway safely but then having started toward the runway again from the taxiway via the grass, as seen in the pictures. Slightly odd, but hey ... someone will know why and will tell us when ready

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the official report says about where they were headed. Somehow I don't think it'll say anything about skidding off the runway, nor about how huge an A319 is!
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 14:39
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The FR24.com final track including taxy looks slightly dog legged around touchdown area but I don't suppose for one moment that's a very reliable angle or trace to make anything of.
Why even quote FR24 when it's been said many, many times the information isn't accurate. You even eluded to that in your sentence.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 14:56
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Because it is information and it means something - sensible minds can filter what it means and what it doesn't. Head-bangers possibly can't.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 15:26
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Actually you're both right - up to a point.

There is no disputing that the A319 in question, in common with all BA's shorthaul fleet, sends accurate and reliable ADS-B data.

So the trick in interpreting what FR24 tells us here is to believe the data points (of which there are relatively few covering the landing and taxy) and ignore the lines that FR24 attempts to join the dots with (because they obviously can't take into account missing plot points).

Looking at the photos, there doesn't seem much doubt that the final position and orientation of the A319 is pretty much as shown on FR24 - roughly parallel to the runway exit, perpendicular to the runway itself, and pointing pretty well directly towards the tower.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 15:45
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And, for the 4:30 pm ground school question, why are some, but not all of the spoilers still up?
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 15:53
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There is no disputing that the A319 in question, in common with all BA's shorthaul fleet, sends accurate and reliable ADS-B data.
My apologies must go to Slip and Turn then.

I didn't realize that some airlines send more accurate ads-b information than others. Which probably explains why when at an airport you see the aircraft has landed but FR24 shows it adjacent to the runway in a housing estate.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 16:12
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As we can all see from the pictures the aircraft is on the grass so let's drop the FR24 discussion before this thread goes the same way as the 747 one.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 16:18
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Evanelpus - no need to apologise, especially to an occasional flash in the pan like me - indeed I did happen (me myself, even) to be banging my head against some baffling FR24 data (and planefinder.net) just yesterday in Spectators' Corner as DaveReidUK knows

Meanwhile, back at Legoland, just been looking at the webcam on the roundabout just outside the airport to see what snow is still hanging around and when it might have arrived ... nothing that settled on the road there ...

Apart from a passing Porsche, no spoilers up there either

... and Airbubba will be along later to collect our best answers for that before we go home - answers which elude me
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 16:44
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Originally Posted by Evanelpus View Post
I didn't realize that some airlines send more accurate ads-b information than others. Which probably explains why when at an airport you see the aircraft has landed but FR24 shows it adjacent to the runway in a housing estate.
DaveReidUK has pointed out to me that it really is the case depending on how and when ADS-B installations were done on a particular fleet.

I've flown legacy 757's in years past where my nav display came from IRS and radio nav but my ADS-B, TCAS and (maybe) EGWPS used usually better GPS positions.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 16:57
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
And, for the 4:30 pm ground school question, why are some, but not all of the spoilers still up?
If the aircraft is on the ground and stopped, the no. 1 spoilers extend with the speedbrake lever.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 17:51
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
And, for the 4:30 pm ground school question, why are some, but not all of the spoilers still up?
Actually that's quite an interesting question that will get some Airbus jockeys flipping back and forth through the manual, I reckon - Good one, (but only one, eh? ) Airbubba!
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 18:16
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Also interesting same aircraft two last year, including one less than 4 months ago?:
www.aeroinside.com/incidents/reg/G-EUPM
So these things still occur in threes ...

Last edited by slip and turn; 7th Feb 2017 at 18:27.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 18:54
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Anyone else thinking that there was a repeat of the nosewheel steering fault that also occurred in Manchester? This time on a slippery taxiway, I suspect there was very little the crew could do to keep it on the hard stuff.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 18:58
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It's only a guess, PF has selected reverse with spoilers armed so Gnd Splrs pop out. Green and Blue hyds dissipate, but Yellow doesn't for some obscure reason so Yellow spoilers (2&4) remain deployed.
Well it is only a guess.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 19:27
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Couldn't they give it loads of welly and power it out?

Grabs coat and exits...
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 19:42
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Both wellies, or would one do? For'ards or back'ards?

Oh he's gone
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 19:46
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Didn't BA already write off a 747 which according to answers to my queries, did not have a moving map airport display installed in an OPT which could have, and in my opinion, most likely would have enabled the crew to avoid leaving BA with a hull loss on their records.

If so, then you would think that the world's finest airline might have similar for their other aircraft installed. Perhaps, they do. Do they? Are they considering it or is the cost and/or technological too much for them.

Safety has a price, and based on recent events of the last few years, BA is willing to pay that price, at least sometimes. Are they upgrading any aircraft without the moving map displays?
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