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TU154 out of Sochi is missing.

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TU154 out of Sochi is missing.

Old 4th Jan 2017, 20:54
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus
The overhead panel photo in Machinbird`s post shows that there are no detents for intermediate flap selections.
Post #275 would suggest that there are, though they're hard to make out on the photo:

Originally Posted by andrasz
The flap lever can only be moved one stop by compressing the two side clamps, another stop requires a release of the hold and compressing the clamps again.
I can't imagine a complete lack of any detents making it past certification.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 21:04
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Karel thanks for this, I've been looking for it. Can you include the hh:mm:ss stamps?

Then I hope we can synch this, the ATC transcript, with the verified CVR transcript, if we ever see that latter transcript.

Last edited by WBryanH; 4th Jan 2017 at 23:12.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 21:57
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Its ATC (from post #15) not CVR transcript
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 21:59
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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Translation = from radio comms with TWR.


"Damn it" is supposed to be from CVR(If true).
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 22:04
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Machinbird, in the cockpit pic in your post here: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9629847 in between the two controls you circled in red, the black-handled flaps deploy control labelled закрылки (flaps) and gear control labelled шасси (gear), we see another control also labelled закрылки (flaps).

Anyone know what that middle flaps control does?

Last edited by WBryanH; 5th Jan 2017 at 00:00.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 22:14
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Post #275 would suggest that there are, though they're hard to make out on the photo:



I can't imagine a complete lack of any detents making it past certification.
In this construction the "detent" is having to release and squeeze the side buttons of the lever when moving up/down a notch.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 19:15
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WBryanH
“Commander, we’re going down!” ("Командир, падаем!")
Originally Posted by PersonFromPorlock
OK, why was my very sensible question of whether "Commander, we're going down" might not be a mistranslation of "Commander, they're going down" (referring to the flaps) pulled?
I use 'падаем' casually for "let's go"
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 19:34
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mora34
In this construction the "detent" is having to release and squeeze the side buttons of the lever when moving up/down a notch.
Are the side mounted release buttons spring mounted, operating a mechanical gate lock/ lever link to an actuator. Are there any schematics or reference source on the flap/slat system.

Quadamp says :
"There are two certain data to the moment:

a.- flaps were at 0º at the moment of impact
b.- we ignore the preferred configuration selected by crew."

Karelx has quoted from ATC transcript :

"TWR: 85572 tell me from where you plan T/O?"
"Tu-154: 85572 from the beginning of RWY, heavy"

Taking the above on board, would it not be reasonable to assume some flap and slat would be expected for "heavy" t/o.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 20:28
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Translation is without any doubts "we are falling down". Period. Please stop speculate.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 20:33
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WBryanH, it's a switch under a cover with 3 position - On, Auto and Off. Don't make any guess from it - it's definitely not a/c in question and IDK which modification of 154 - M, or B, or B-2... You can check how different cockpit layout of this birds can be: Tu-154 cockpit/salon at russianplanes.net
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 05:06
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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Kulverstukas

Kulverstukas:

Thanks a lot for a most interesting gallery of interior pictures of the TU 154. I learnt more from them than any half a dozen written manuals. The flight deck appears rugged but functional and I found myself thinking I could have been quite at home in that environment. Your efforts are much appreciated.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 11:04
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Question to Kulverstukas

Does the Tu154 have a speed baulk or any other device to prevent retraction of the slats at too low speed?
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 11:40
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AFAIK there is not. Except T/O configuration warning.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 11:43
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BTW good source of cockpit photos of 154M and B

1) Dokumentace obrazov?ho charakteru - Tupolev TU-154M detailní fotografie cockpitu

2) russos | Tu-154B-2 CCCP-85327

3) Tu-154M electrical equipment manual
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 13:29
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Kulverstukas, is it possible that they selected flaps, but they didn't deploy and this went unnoticed? What would be the take-off run in this case?
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 13:36
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The IAS 'steam gauge' in the panel can hardly differentiate between 350 and 400km/h but the V2 and Vref speeds are given with 3 digits. So either the PF give it a good margin or there is another clue on IAS I overlook. If the scan of the PF uses this IAS instrument as reference for TO then I can hardly imagine that they give margin to the low side operating the flaps. A TO mostly over water is routine and not very demanding as long as all donkeys work. The tower RT transcript sounds relaxed and not busy at all.
Has anyone the max. speed limits for the 15 and 28 degree flap settings at hand?
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 13:49
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they selected flaps, but they didn't deploy and this went unnoticed
Highly improbable.

What would be the take-off run in this case?
I'm not a pilot of Tu-5 but mostly everybody agree that in case of T/O without flaps they will end their flight in the fence instead of Black Sea.

Has anyone the max. speed limits for the 15 and 28 degree flap settings at hand?
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9626860
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 13:57
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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Press conference of state committee of investigation (29/12/16):

Q: "You have just said that it is obvious that there was a technical malfunction, can you please clarify this point, I mean, now, according to the investigation, you realize that it was a technical failure in the plane..?
A: "Yes, but these issues will be clarified in the due process of technical investigations. As soon as reliable data, as well as the results of examinations, will be clear, they will be immediately presented to the public through the media..."
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 15:27
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for the info on the IAS gauges. That makes much mores sense. The pictures give the impression that only the right hand seat has the detailed IAS indicator and would therefore be the one calling/operating the flaps/slats.

@Kulverstukas thanks for your very helpful contribution. I was asking for the max. speeds allowed (Vfe) with flaps/slats in the 15 and 28 degree detention. That is the speed your instructor tells you that they will fall off if exceeded. In the table are the nominal speeds V2 and Vref.
Vfe is of interest to get an impression about the timing of normal procedures during TO.
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Old 6th Jan 2017, 15:41
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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the max. speeds allowed (Vfe) with flaps/slats in the 15 and 28 degree detention
15° - 420 kmh
28° - 360 kmh
45° - 300 kmh
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