LH E195 took off without clearance at BRU
Pegase Driver
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Scuffers :
No you don't.
Well as said before , this is likely from a hand held scanner , the ATC real R/T quality is generally much better but not always ( thinking more HF) , no generally mistakes like this do not happen because of quality , if you have a doubt , we ask to " say again" . Here the instruction to line up and wait was repeated by the PNF, so understood. No complied with by PF is the issue here.
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I can see how mistakes can happen
, I'm amazed anybody can understand that real-time.
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FZRA I thought that the term take-off should no longer be used outside that of an actual take-off clearance. Your example mentions "take-off" twice during a critical period. This is not as fail safe as you may think. Just a personal observation.
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I have never seen this in Europe. But can't this create an additional threat by mistaking the red lights going out for a clearance? Obviously you shouldn't, but many pilots only fly to the US once in a while. Combine an unfamiliar lighting system with fatigue, and mistakes might happen.
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FZRA So if you do not want your colleague to slam the throttle forward and set off down the runway feeling dumb and happy how about
"Check list complete, line up only"
No need to mention Take off.
"Check list complete, line up only"
No need to mention Take off.
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No need to say anything at all. There is an SOP that is common to all aircraft once take off clearance has been received. If that SOP hasn't been actioned then you don't go or you double check your clearance.
By the by our SOPs require 3 mentions of "take off" during the line up process, which I think is stupid but They won't change it.
By the by our SOPs require 3 mentions of "take off" during the line up process, which I think is stupid but They won't change it.
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Scuffers :
Well as said before , this is likely from a hand held scanner , the ATC real R/T quality is generally much better but not always ( thinking more HF) , no generally mistakes like this do not happen because of quality , if you have a doubt , we ask to " say again" . Here the instruction to line up and wait was repeated by the PNF, so understood. No complied with by PF is the issue here.
.
Well as said before , this is likely from a hand held scanner , the ATC real R/T quality is generally much better but not always ( thinking more HF) , no generally mistakes like this do not happen because of quality , if you have a doubt , we ask to " say again" . Here the instruction to line up and wait was repeated by the PNF, so understood. No complied with by PF is the issue here.
.
I have heard better quality audio out of $50 CB rigs, kind of hope million dollar aircraft have something better...
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Hence, when I'm PNF and reaching the end of the take-off checks, I normally say something along the lines of "Take-Off checks complete, we are not cleared to take-off yet" or words to that effect. Just to be sure that the PF is on the same page as me and doesn't slam the throttles forward as we finish the line-up. Does anyone else do this?
Guess that's one option to reduce confusion.
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I remember, not very long ago, when a particular German airline I flew with always used the term "take off" when making the announcement from the F/D, i.e. "cabin crew take your seats for take-off". I even commented on it here in PPRuNe. This was the standard call by all crew in that airline and it struck me as another potential hole in the cheese. Following a small reshuffle last year, the airline continued operating under a different guise and I noticed that "take off" had been replaced by "departure" in this announcement.
After saying "Before take-off checklist complete." I always say: "Line up only" in that situation - It is not SOP to do so, but it just seems safer to me.
They do, but the equipment is commonly misused. As an ex broadcasting engineer, the quality of aircraft and ATC VHF radio comms sometimes makes me despair. What also makes me despair though is when I say we should snag this box, your radio, your boom set, etc, and they don't understand or they say, "well it seems alright to me."
A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that "walkie talkie" transmissions or anything similar SHOULD sound distorted, so they don't think anything is wrong, but actually when properly set up and used, VHF RT comms can be very good.
Then you have the people whose first action is to take off the microphone windshield - "horrible things" they say; and spend the next 8-12 hours making breath distorted RT and interphone calls while their spit and germs fill up the bare microphone. This stops the noise cancelling from working and makes all their transmissions very noisy. "station calling?"
Phew, that's better. I'm off to have a quiet lie down...........!
(For best results, use a windshield and place the microphone a finger's width away from your lips, otherwise the noise cancelling won't work. Squeeze the windshield so you can feel the shape of the microphone - some are drum shaped, others flat - and rotate the microphone so you are speaking into its surface not its edge, otherwise - again - the noise cancelling won't work and your transmissions will be hard to understand. Speak slowly, and at normal speaking volume.)
I have heard better quality audio out of $50 CB rigs, kind of hope million dollar aircraft have something better...
A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that "walkie talkie" transmissions or anything similar SHOULD sound distorted, so they don't think anything is wrong, but actually when properly set up and used, VHF RT comms can be very good.
Then you have the people whose first action is to take off the microphone windshield - "horrible things" they say; and spend the next 8-12 hours making breath distorted RT and interphone calls while their spit and germs fill up the bare microphone. This stops the noise cancelling from working and makes all their transmissions very noisy. "station calling?"
Phew, that's better. I'm off to have a quiet lie down...........!
(For best results, use a windshield and place the microphone a finger's width away from your lips, otherwise the noise cancelling won't work. Squeeze the windshield so you can feel the shape of the microphone - some are drum shaped, others flat - and rotate the microphone so you are speaking into its surface not its edge, otherwise - again - the noise cancelling won't work and your transmissions will be hard to understand. Speak slowly, and at normal speaking volume.)
Last edited by Uplinker; 26th Oct 2016 at 10:04.
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It would make sense for "danger" runways (i.e. those with active intersections) to have a strip of bright lights a few hundred metres in that stay red and only turn green once clearance is given. This system already exists on taxiways so why not on runways?
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Maybe time to go back to Aldis light signals aimed at the cockpit. Green for clear take off and red for don't take off.
Red stop bars on the runway at line up. ON = hold. Off = cleared to launch. Considering AC's incident at SFO, the green threshold lights of an active runway could be changed to red when the runway is closed, or it's not a runway at all.
Red stop bars on the runway at line up. ON = hold. Off = cleared to launch. Considering AC's incident at SFO, the green threshold lights of an active runway could be changed to red when the runway is closed, or it's not a runway at all.