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America West crew arrested @ MIA (Update - Sentences)

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America West crew arrested @ MIA (Update - Sentences)

Old 11th Jul 2002, 15:36
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Red face

Yep, this stuff does occur more often than we'd like to admit...

___________________________________


Another pilot caught drunk at Miami airport

News partner CBS 4

Posted July 11 2002, 6:35 AM EDT

An AeroMexico pilot has been fired after being caught drunk while getting ready to fly a passenger flight out of Miami.

CBS 4 reported that the pilot was stopped about two months ago when screeners at Miami International Airport noticed alcohol on his breath.

Miami-Dade police were called and, after the pilot agreed, he was given a sobriety test. He failed and was not allowed on the plane, but he was not arrested because he had not entered the plane.

An AeroMexico spokesman said the pilot, who lives in Mexico, was fired after the airline learned of the incident.

"our main priority is the safety of our passengers and we have a zero tolerance policy (relating to alcohol abuse) ... and that's why he was fired immediately," the spokesman said.

Earlier this month, two America West pilots who allegedly had been drinking were arrested after they tried to take command of their scheduled flight at Miami International with 120 passengers aboard.

Copyright 2002, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

____________________________________



>>Yes, do remember the NW captain that had 19 rum n'cokes the night before he went flying.
Also remember the crying story he wrote in the ALPA magazine.

Guess it worked, he got the job back after 5 years or so, thanks to ALPA and the crying job..<<

Here's more on Captain Prouse:

http://www.avweb.com/articles/profiles/lprouse/

He's now a motivational speaker, see:

http://www.centracare.com/whatsnew/r...y_plus_30.html

http://www.cloudnet.com/~wings/newssum1.htm

In the U.S., if you claim that your actions were due to an ethanol dependency, you are basically a protected species if you agree to rehab:

http://walterolson.com/articles/washmdrink.html
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Old 17th Jul 2002, 08:21
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More Pax booted at America West

Family fumes after being booted from plane
Passenger says he just wanted to know if crew was sober
By Claire Osborn

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Tuesday, July 16, 2002

One question to a flight crew, and their summer vacation was ruined, members of an Austin-area family said.

While on their way to go fishing in Canada, Hans von Schweinitz and his family were told to leave an America West flight after he asked whether the pilots had taken a sobriety test.

He said he posed the question to a flight attendant while boarding the plane July 6 in Phoenix because he was concerned that two America West pilots in Miami previously had been charged with operating an aircraft while intoxicated.

The pilots agreed to take a blood alcohol test, but afterward they told von Schweinitz to get off the plane.

Von Schweinitz, 68, a German immigrant, said being kicked off the plane reminded him of living in Germany during World War II.

"It sent cold chills down my back," he said. "My family opposed Hitler, but if you asked the wrong questions, you took your life in your hands, because the SS and Gestapo had complete power."

America West is reviewing the incident, said Janet Monahan, a spokeswoman for the airline. Airplane crews can ask passengers to leave a flight if they cause a disruption or pose a threat, Monahan said.

"What we need to determine was: Were there concerns along those lines?" she said.

Von Schweinitz, retired from the U.S. Air Force, was flying to Seattle with his 37-year-old son, Christopher von Schweinitz, and his 9-year-old grandson, Matt von Schweinitz.

They were boarding Flight 79 at 7:30 a.m. in Phoenix when the elder von Schweinitz asked about the sobriety test. After they took their seats, a flight attendant told them the pilots would take the test, said Christopher von Schweinitz.

Then the flight crew announced that the plane's departure would be delayed because a passenger had asked if the pilot had taken a blood alcohol test.

The delay lasted 2 1/2 hours while the crew waited for a blood alcohol test to be brought to the airport.

"The passengers were upset, and what was a little disconcerting was that we could hear someone talking on a cell phone and saying, `Some idiot asked this question,' " Christopher von Schweinitz said.

Finally a pilot announced that the crew had passed the sobriety test.

"He said parents should teach their children that there are consequences to asking questions and that the passenger who asked the question was going to be taken off the plane," Christopher von Schweinitz said.

A security guard escorted the von Schweinitz family off the plane. The airline put the family on the next flight to Seattle.

"People cheered, and that was embarrassing and humiliating," Christopher von Schweinitz said.

"The guy said he could put us on the next America West flight, but we had to give our word that we wouldn't ask questions like that again, and we said that we wouldn't."

The von Schweinitzes have returned to the Austin area from their fishing vacation. They immediately took their story to the tabloid TV show "Inside Edition." It aired Monday.

They have not heard from the airline, but Hans von Schweinitz says an apology wouldn't satisfy him. He says his vacation and his fishing were ruined.

"I have learned that an apology does not solve the problem," he said. "It is up to the airline to find a way to correct it so that two pilots don't fly together drunk."

America West Airlines has had reports of more than 100 sobriety comments made by passengers since two pilots were accused of preparing to fly a passenger jet while drunk in Florida two weeks ago. Both pilots lost their licenses.

"Consistent with our commitment to safety, we need to take these comments seriously," the airline said in a statement. "Most have been handled professionally. However, unfortunately in a few cases, we have overreacted."
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Old 17th Jul 2002, 08:31
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Pilots plead innocent. MIAMI, Florida (AP) -- Two America West pilots have pleaded innocent to charges they were drunk when they tried to fly a jetliner.

Thomas Cloyd, 44, and co-pilot Christopher Hughes, 41, entered the pleadings last week in Miami-Dade Circuit Court. They are each charged with a felony count of operating an aircraft under the influence and operating a motor vehicle under the influence.
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Old 17th Jul 2002, 16:46
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Angry

Way to go, Hans !
Now not only does everybody who was on that flight know you are a farking imbecile, so do all the intellectuals who watch tabloid TV. And all the intellectuals who read PPruNe.
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Old 23rd Jul 2002, 15:08
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Posted on Tue, Jul. 23, 2002

America West pilots rang up hefty bar tab

Party downed equivalent of 30 beers

BY LISA ARTHUR
[email protected]

When Miami-Dade police asked America West pilot Capt. Thomas Porter Cloyd how many beers he drank just hours before he attempted to fly 124 passengers from Miami to Phoenix, he replied: ''Too many,'' according to court documents released Monday.

The pilots, yanked from their cockpit July 1 because police suspected they were drunk, rang up a $122 bar tab at Mr. Moe's in Coconut Grove the night before the flight. Their party, prosecutors say, consumed the equivalent of 30 12-ounce bottles of beer and one martini between 10:49 p.m. and 4:22 a.m.

The only food listed on the tab: a hamburger.

Eight hours after closing out the tab, police say, Cloyd registered a blood alcohol level of .091 and First Officer Christopher Scott Hughes tested at .081.

It's not clear exactly how many people were drinking at Moe's with Cloyd, 44, and Hughes, 41.

The receipt seems to indicate there might have been as many as 11 people in the pilots' party, but prosecutor Ron Ramsingh said he expects to have evidence that contradicts that.

''You shouldn't infer from the receipt that there were 11 people in their party drinking that alcohol,'' Ramsingh said. "We contend there were far fewer than that.''

A manager at Moe's declined to comment Monday afternoon. But two sources familiar with the case say investigators obtained a security tape from the bar that shows there were between four and six people in the party.

Ramsingh asked a judge Monday to revoke the pilots' bail, claiming they left Miami-Dade County and returned to their homes in Arizona without getting the court's permission.

Hughes' attorney James K. Rubin said his client believed his contract with the bail bond company allowed him to travel.

''The bondsmen told them they could travel back to Arizona,'' Rubin said. Cloyd is represented by attorney William Pearson.

COURT DATE

Both men have been ordered to appear in court Aug. 1.

''I'm not trying to lock them up until the trial,'' Ramsingh said. "We just want them to follow proper procedure and come back and ask the court for permission to be in Arizona.''

Both men have pleaded not guilty to misdemeanor DUI charges and felony charges of operating an airplane while intoxicated.

They face up to six years in prison if convicted on all counts, Ramsingh said.

The Federal Aviation Administration revoked the men's pilots certificates three days after the incident. America West also fired them.

According to prosecution evidence released Monday to the defense lawyers:

The receipt shows the pilots' table ordered seven 34-ounce Sierra Nevada draft beers; seven 16 ounce Sierra Nevada draft beers; one martini; one ''happy hour draft''; and one "Western Burger.''

Cloyd and Hughes closed out the tab at 4:22 a.m.

GUARDS ON ALERT

Six hours later, they arrived at Miami International Airport to pilot a 10:39 a.m. flight. Security guards said they appeared drunk.

The guards called police and said the pilots reeked of alcohol, had bloodshot eyes, flushed faces, and became irate when they were told they couldn't pass through a security checkpoint with large cups of coffee.

Hughes told the guards it was just his ''bad breath'' when they asked him if he had been drinking, according to court records. Both pilots soon took the controls and began taxiing the jet for takeoff. Miami-Dade officers called the control tower and had the plane return to the gate.

Officers queried Hughes about his breath. He responded the scent was ''merely mouthwash,'' according to the arrest report. Police read the pilots their rights against self-incrimination, court records show, and then asked them how much alcohol they drank.

`TOO MANY'

The pilots said they were drinking pints of draft beer at Moe's. Cloyd said he didn't know how many he had consumed, but that it was ''too many,'' according to an investigator's notation.

Hughes told police he had consumed ''many'' pints.

FAA regulations prohibit pilots from operating an aircraft within eight hours of consuming alcohol or if they have a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.04 or higher.

Florida's legal limit for driving is .08. America West policy bans drinking within 12 hours of a scheduled departure.


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...al/3715212.htm
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Old 23rd Jul 2002, 20:40
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Am West Pilots in Rehab

Here's today's update:

State: Pilots in rehab

The Associated Press
Posted July 23, 2002, 3:03 PM EDT


MIAMI -- Two America West pilots accused of being drunk when they tried to fly a jetliner are in alcohol rehabilitation and are set for release a day after their next scheduled court date, prosecutors said Tuesday.

Lawyers for Thomas Porter Cloyd and Christopher Hughes have requested a Wednesday hearing to ask a judge to move their Aug. 1 court appearance because the pilots will be in alcohol rehabilitation in Arizona until Aug. 2, Assistant State Attorney Ronald Ramsingh said. The men entered the 28-day program days after they were arrested July 1 in Miami, Ramsingh said. He said he didn't know which center the men were in...

_______________________________________

Hard to say if this will let them cop a plea and stay out of prison (assuming they are found guilty), it sometimes works in "celebrity" substance abuse cases.

Here's a copy of the infamous bar tab:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/pilottab1.html

Last edited by Airbubba; 23rd Jul 2002 at 20:45.
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Old 3rd Oct 2002, 19:06
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Efforts to cop a plea have apparently failed, now they are going to claim they weren't driving and the cops had no probable cause to arrest and test them.

Looks like the lawyers are also trying to use a less stringent .10 federal motor vehicle alcohol limit. The .04 FAA limit is mentioned in the first article.
_______________________________________



Posted on Mon, Sep. 30, 2002

2 pilots accused of DUI say they weren't actually driving when arrested
BY LISA ARTHUR
[email protected]

Two former America West pilots arrested for trying to fly 124 passengers from Miami to Phoenix while drunk say the charges against them should be dropped because they weren't actually in control of the jet when police yanked them out of the cockpit.

A ''tug vehicle'' had been attached to the Airbus 319, pulled the jet away from the gate and then pulled it back after police and security ordered the plane to return, according to court documents filed by lawyers for the pilots.

''The pilot, although seated in a fully functioning plane, did not have the ability to control the plane's steering,'' reads a motion asking the Circuit Judge David Young to dismiss the case.

The motion goes on to say the two had to actually be ''operating'' the plane to be arrested.

Pilot Thomas Porter Cloyd and First Officer Christopher Hughes were removed from their cockpit July 1 after workers at a security checkpoint told police the pilots reeked of alcohol and became confrontational when asked to give up their cups of coffee before passing through a metal detector.

Cloyd and Hughes, who both live in Arizona, appeared in court on Monday for a report on the status of the case.

They heard prosecutor Ron Ramsingh add an additional criminal charge against them: culpable negligence for endangering the lives of the passengers and crew on board that day.

The two had previously been charged with driving while impaired and operating an aircraft while intoxicated.

Cloyd and Hughes have pleaded innocent to all charges. They declined to comment for this story.

The pair rang up a $122 bar tab at Mr. Moe's in Coconut Grove the night before the flight, according to court documents.

Their party of 4, prosecutors say, consumed the equivalent of 30 12-ounce bottles of beer and one martini between 10:49 p.m. and 4:22 a.m. The only food listed on the tab: a hamburger.

Eight hours after closing out the tab, police say, Cloyd registered a blood alcohol level of .091 and Hughes tested at .081, both higher than Florida's legal limit of .08.

The pilots have asked Young to throw out the case before it goes to trial on several grounds. A hearing has been scheduled for Oct. 23.

Cloyd and Huges contend that police had no probable cause to arrest them and ask them to submit to sobriety tests. The mere odor of alcohol is not enough evidence, their lawyers wrote in motions to the court.

Defense attorneys James Rubin and William Pearson did not return calls for comment.

Ramsingh said prosecutors will file a response to the requests to throw the case out withing two weeks.

After the incident America West fired them and the Federal Aviation Administration suspended their pilot certificates.

FAA regulations ban pilots from operating an aircraft if they have a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.04 or higher.


____________________________________________

Pilots plead innocent to new charge

MIAMI, Sept. 30 (UPI) -- Two America West pilots accused of operating an aircraft under the influence of alcohol pleaded innocent Monday to an additional charge of culpable negligence. Circuit Judge David Young moved the trial date from Oct. 21 to Nov. 4 and a hearing date was set for Oct. 23 on a motion to dismiss and another motion to move the case to federal court.
The motion to dismiss was based on the defense's contention that the pilots were not operating the plane. It was being pushed out onto the runway by an airport tractor and the aircraft's steering mechanism was locked.
Moving the case to federal court would bring the pilots' blood-alcohol tests under the federal threshold. State law requires a blood-alcohol level to be over .08 to be under the influence, while federal law requires a .10 reading.
Both Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes registered between those two levels.
CNN reported that an attempt for a plea bargain has fallen through...

... Cloyd and Hughes both face possible prison time if they are convicted.
Police records show it was Cloyd's fourth arrest on alcohol-related charges, but the airline said it knew nothing about any of the incidents. The two men have been fired by the airline pending an appeal by the Airline Pilots Association.


http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...0750-4078r.htm
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Old 3rd Oct 2002, 19:21
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Thanks for the interesting updates.

A thought - They DID presumably start the engines, and release the brakes.
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Old 6th Aug 2003, 11:41
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Looks like they copped a walk on the state charges:

Judge Rules Florida Can't Prosecute Drunk Pilots

Tuesday, August 05, 2003

MIAMI The state cannot prosecute two America West (search) pilots who were fired for taking the controls of their jetliner after a night of heavy drinking, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.

Judge Patricia Seitz said not only must the state drop charges of drunken operation of a jet against pilot Thomas Cloyd (search), 45, and co-pilot Christopher Hughes (search), 42, but the state cannot take any other action based on their arrests in July 2002.

The pilots' blood-alcohol results were above the state drunkenness standard of 0.08 percent but below the federal criminal standard of 0.10 percent.

Seitz said the federal government has come to dominate the field of commercial aviation, leaving no room for the state unless there is a loss of life, injury or damage.

A spokesman for the state attorney's office said it would appeal the ruling.

The pilots were at the controls when their Airbus carrying 124 passengers was pushed away from the gate for a Miami-Phoenix flight. At the same time, security guards were reporting that the men smelled of alcohol, and the plane was brought back to the gate.

The pilots were stripped of their commercial licenses.

Attorney James Rubin said he told his client Hughes the news and "of course he was happy." Cloyd's attorney was not available for comment.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93864,00.html
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Old 6th Aug 2003, 15:00
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Is it true in America West that 5 cabin crew are carried on the airbus,4 to work and one to help the 80 year old cabin crew member down the gangway!
Does this zero tolerance of alcohol apply to cabin crew as they appear to think it doesnt,there is no way some of them are
fit to work on a long haul flight after staggering in at 7am ready for a departure late that afternoon
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Old 8th Jul 2004, 19:47
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Here come the federal charges:

America West pilots charged with being drunk in cockpit

CATHERINE WILSON

Associated Press

MIAMI - Two fired America West pilots were charged in a federal indictment released Thursday with being drunk in the cockpit as they left a gate at Miami International Airport two years ago.

Pilot Thomas Cloyd and co-pilot Christopher Hughes, who are appealing similar state charges, were charged with being under the influence of alcohol while operating an airliner. Both were expected to make their first appearance on the charge later Thursday.

The pilots were at the controls when their Airbus carrying 124 passengers left the gate for a flight to Phoenix in July 2002. Authorities stopped the plane after security guards reported smelling alcohol on the pilots, and the plane returned to the gate before takeoff.

The pilots were videotaped drinking beer for hours at a sports bar until seven hours before the flight. Blood-alcohol results for Cloyd and Hughes were above the state drunkenness standard of 0.08 but below the federal criminal standard of 0.10.

A pilot would be presumed drunk under federal criminal law above the 0.10 level, but could still be convicted with a lower number if a jury found evidence of impairment.

Federal regulations ban pilots from drinking within eight hours of flights, and both pilots lost their commercial licenses under a rule barring a preflight blood-alcohol of 0.04 or higher. As a bail condition in the state case, they were barred from recreational flying as well.

Attorneys for the pilots declined to comment on the indictment. William Pearson, who represented Cloyd in the state case, said he believed both pilots would ask for court-appointed lawyers on the indictment because they couldn't afford private ones after their two-year legal battle.

The state charged both pilots, and a state appeals court has upheld prosecution.

But a federal judge sided with the pilots by ruling that Congress carved out aviation safety as an area of federal jurisdiction and left no room for the state to prosecute without loss of life, injury or damage. An appeal on that issue has been heard but not decided.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...te/9107392.htm
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Old 1st Feb 2005, 04:58
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Federal case dropped against two allegedly drunk America West pilots

By Catherine Wilson
Associated Press Writer

January 31, 2005, 5:39 PM EST

MIAMI -- Federal prosecutors dropped criminal charges against two fired America West pilots less than three weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court allowed state prosecutors to pursue their own case.

The decision leaves the pilots facing one trial instead of two after videotape showed the pilots spent much of the night before their flight drinking beer at a popular sports bar in Miami's Coconut Grove neighborhood.

Pilot Thomas Cloyd of Peoria, Ariz., and co-pilot Christopher Hughes of Leander, Texas, backed their Airbus, carrying 124 passengers, out of a Miami airport gate for a flight to Phoenix in July 2002. The plane was ordered back to the terminal after airport security reported smelling alcohol on the pilots.

Blood-alcohol results were above the state drunkenness standard of 0.08 but below the federal standard of 0.10 [sic].

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke signed an order Friday accepting the federal government's request to drop charges that the pilots were under the influence of alcohol when operating the jet. Without a higher blood-alcohol reading, federal prosecutors would have had to prove the charge by the pilots' behavior.

In state court, they face charges of operating an aircraft while intoxicated, driving a vehicle while impaired and culpable negligence. Arguments on motions are set March 22 and a tentative trial date is set May 4.

The pilots' attorney for the state case and the state attorney's office declined to comment. The pilots' attorneys in the federal case didn't immediately return phone messages Monday.

Both pilots lost their commercial licenses shortly after their arrests and have been barred from recreational flying as a condition of bail.

The pilots appealed their prosecution by the state, arguing that Congress carved out aviation safety as an area of federal jurisdiction and left no room for state prosecution unless there was a loss of life, injury or damage.

A federal judge agreed, but an appeals court disagreed, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to consider the issue.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines
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Old 1st Feb 2005, 12:57
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The wheels of justice move extremely slowly but provide a nice little earner for Attorneys. (The Hatfield trial is allegedly going to last a year. ) Isn't it amazing that the War Crimes Tribunal after WW2 took less time to deal with matters than this case of alleged intoxication. In the meantime these two guys cannot follow their chosen occupation.
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Old 3rd Feb 2005, 06:40
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You really think these guys should be ALLOWED to follow their chosen occupation?

Or did I read you wrong and these guys are professional drunks?
 
Old 3rd Feb 2005, 08:53
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Check the reported alcohol levels before you decide they were professional drunks.
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Old 3rd Feb 2005, 09:21
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Honestly I can not follow all these statements anymore so can somebody pls explain what the present status of the situation is and correct me if necessary!

1. The pilots have benn arrested and tested positively
2. Their Licences are canx (Thats okay I think)
3. There is a Law-Case going on and now there seems to be the opportunity that hte judge can not blame them because the Aviation field is out of his control as long as there is no Incident?


Anyway, guys remember my words:
DON'T DRINK & FLY
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Old 3rd Feb 2005, 09:32
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Blood-alcohol results were above the state drunkenness standard of 0.08 but below the federal standard of 0.10 [sic].
How do these levels compare to the U.K. ?
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Old 24th May 2005, 04:37
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The familiar "we didn't know we wuz going flying" defense, a variation worked for the nameless (on PPRuNe) American Virgin pilot last year...
____________________________________

"It's like a video game," said James Rubin, Hughes' attorney. "You can sit in the plane and move the controls but you have no control."


Posted on Mon, May. 23, 2005

Prosecutors detail case against pilots charged with endangerment

BY CHRYSTIAN TEJEDOR

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

MIAMI - (KRT) - Two former America West pilots charged with operating an aircraft while drunk were so impaired when they entered the cockpit in July 2002 that they failed simple sobriety tests, prosecutors told jurors Monday as the pilots went on trial.

The Miami-Dade County Circuit Court jury must decide if the pilots, Thomas Cloyd of Peoria, Ariz. and Christopher Hughes of Leander, Texas, were in control of the airplane when it was being towed away from a terminal at Miami International Airport.

If convicted, the two men could be sentenced to a maximum five-year prison sentence for endangering the lives of the 127 people aboard the Phoenix-bound flight.

Defense attorneys said that the airplane's controls were disconnected and that the tug operator, not the pilots, controlled the plane.

"It's like a video game," said James Rubin, Hughes' attorney. "You can sit in the plane and move the controls but you have no control."

Prosecutors, however, said Cloyd and Hughes were in charge of the plane, giving the tug operator instructions from the cockpit as the plane's engines were running.

Assistant State Attorney Hillah Sara Katz told jurors that Airbus designed the airplane to be controlled by two pilots. The FAA also requires two pilots to fly the airplane, she said.

"A pilot and a co-pilot are required to operate this airplane . . . on July 1, 2002 the only two people who did not require it were the defendants."

Police stopped the plane before it could get to the runway, ordering the tug operator to return to the terminal. When police gave the two pilots a Breathalyzer test hours after the flight's scheduled take off time, results showed that both men had a blood alcohol level higher than Florida's legal limit of .08, prosecutors said.

"Those numbers at 10:30 a.m. would have been much higher than they were at 1 p.m.," Katz said.

During her opening statement, Katz said the two men started drinking while having dinner with two flight attendants. The four split a bottle of wine and one of the pilots had a martini, she said.

The drinking continued at Mr. Moe's, a popular Coconut Grove bar, where Cloyd and Hughes ordered seven 34-ounce and seven 16-ounce Sierra Nevada beers. Katz said the $122 tab included a martini and one hamburger, but that was for the one of the flight attendants.

While the flight attendants left for their hotel at about midnight, Cloyd and Hughes didn't leave until about 5 a.m. and only after they were asked to leave for knocking down barstools, Katz said.

The next morning, Cloyd and Hughes arrived late for work and stopped for coffee. Although a Federal Aviation Authority rules at the time prevented anyone from bringing a liquid beyond a security checkpoint, Cloyd argued that the rule didn't apply to him.

After throwing out the coffee, Cloyd and Hughes crossed the security checkpoint, but Hughes set off the metal detectors prompting a closer examination. A screener noticed a strong smell of alcohol on his breath.

Police were eventually notified and were ordered to stop the plane.

"Miami-Dade Police opened the door and were confronted by Captain Cloyd in his belligerent attitude," Katz said, "demanding to know why his airplane was stopped."

Defense attorneys sidestepped the issue of alcohol, saying that the main issue is whether the pilots had any real control over the plane.

"They didn't endanger anyone because the plane was connected to the tug," said Dan Foodman, the attorney for Cloyd. "There is no evidence that they endangered life or property."
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Old 24th May 2005, 06:38
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Errr...

So let me get this straight now... Is the defence suggesting that the tug was intending to haul the a/c and pax all the way to Phoenix ?

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Old 24th May 2005, 07:01
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Either that, or the captain and FO were going to suddenly see the light, head back to the terminal and turn themselves in when they heard tower say "cleared for takeoff".
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