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SFO launches investigation into Airbus

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SFO launches investigation into Airbus

Old 8th Aug 2016, 10:27
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SFO launches investigation into Airbus

Serious Fraud Office opens Airbus corruption investigation - BBC News

Reading this on the BBC and thought it might be of interest to those here who aren't aware of it being in the news.

'The UK's Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has launched an investigation into allegations of "fraud, bribery and corruption" in the civil aviation business of Airbus.
The allegations relate to irregularities concerning third party consultants.
The France-based aircraft manufacturer said it was co-operating with the probe, which was launched last month.'
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 12:57
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Who could believe such things???
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:00
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What happened to Lockheed?

Lockheed executives admitted paying millions in bribes over more than a decade to the Dutch (Prince Bernhard, husband of Queen Juliana, in particular), to key Japanese and West German politicians, to Italian officials and generals, and to other highly placed figures from Hong Kong to Saudi Arabia, in order to get them to buy our airplanes.

Airbus Affair.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:03
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I can't help thinking probes like this are just stupidity.

Are they trying to shut Airbus down?

Same deal with the RR investigation, unless your going to have an international authority do the same for *ALL* the industry (ie. the Yanks too), all you are doing to shooting your own workforce in the head.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:24
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Humans always seek to gain preference by one way or another (by hook or by crrok) and it has been that way for as long as humans have existed. You can legislate against human nature - but it won't change human nature - as countless govts have found out over the years.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:31
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Where does 'entertaining' (paying for lunches), trips to factories (with accommodation), 'holidays' (visits to see products in service), gifts (pens, folders, bottles or greater) slide into cash donations (discounts and commission on sales)?

I suppose it's all relative.

Bribery is the act of giving money, goods or other forms of recompense to a recipient in exchange for an alteration of their behavior (to the benefit/interest of the giver) that the recipient would otherwise not alter. Bribery is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty.

Gifts of money or other items of value which are otherwise available to everyone on an equivalent basis, and not for dishonest purposes, is not bribery. Offering a discount or a refund to all purchasers is a legal rebate and is not bribery.

It may be money, goods, rights in action, property, preferment, privilege, emolument, objects of value, advantage, or merely a promise to induce or influence the action, vote, or influence of a person in an official or public capacity.
One must be careful of differing social and cultural norms when examining bribery.
Expectations of when a monetary transaction is appropriate can differ from place to place.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:42
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There is no (US) federal statute that by its terms expressly prohibits commercial bribery,
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 13:56
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
There is no (US) federal statute that by its terms expressly prohibits commercial bribery,
Yeah, but there are ways to get at those dealing in kickbacks.
... the federal mail and wire fraud statutes can be used to prosecute commercial bribery as a "scheme or artifice to defraud" if the mail or interstate wire facilities are used. In addition, use of the mails or interstate travel or communication in furtherance of a violation of state commercial bribery laws may be prosecutable in Federal court under the Travel Act. As the penalties under the federal statutes may exceed the state penalties, and the federal investigative and enforcement agencies may have superior resources, often federal prosecution is favored.
PS thanks for the link: I hadn't realized that kickbacks were illegal in only 36 of the 50 states under various state laws.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 14:09
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G-CPTN,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_Act
As Lonewolf indicated.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 14:17
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unless your going to have an international authority do the same for *ALL* the industry (ie. the Yanks too), all you are doing to shooting your own workforce in the head.
The eternal silly argument!
"Because you can't get all the wrongdoers, don't go after the one you can".
Very civilised indeed.

With the same argument you can shut down each and every national agency who prosecutes wrongdoers, because they obviously have no authority over other wrongdoers in other countries, they should, according to your logic, not prosecute the ones under their authority.

Would you advocate the same for doping sinners?

There has to be a start somewhere, sometime. To whine for a international agency points right at the tooth- and spineless UN.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 15:13
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United Nations Convention Against Corruption is widely accepted. One poster mentioned job losses...theoretically...the amount of jobs at risk is far less than the jobs lost through economic and social underdevelopment, which are directly related to corruption.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 15:14
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You can't have distinctive white guys wearing an Airbus or Boeing badge walking around town trying to find out who is the real decision maker.
They need a local guy who knows who the top dog is and what will make him decide for your product. T'was always thus ...
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 15:33
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No, not really.

the problem is define wrongdoing?

if you have ever worked in some countries, 'commissions' are a way of life, if you don't, you might aswell not bother trying to trade with them, ie, in this case, just let the Yanks take all the work.

At what point you call it a bribe is semantics.

No, I don't like working this way, but it's their country and that's how they work.

Being all goodie two shoes about it is economic suicide, and I'll let you work out how to explain to all the redundant airbus workers (and the rest of the support industries workers).
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 15:41
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I think you'll find the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act goes way beyond anything the UK deems illegal. They also have a hugely better track record of actually prosecuting those they go after. So I don't think it's a case of "leave it to the Americans". More likely the French...
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 17:00
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Indeed - and it appears that various Govts will inform others & pass on evidence in order to nail the corrupt where it will do them most harm...... The UK now has similar laws as does the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Canada and Australia. There is NO defence in claiming "everyone does it" or " its the local way of life" I'm afraid........

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fra...-practices-act

An Overview
The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly in furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value to any person, while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person.
Since 1977, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA have applied to all U.S. persons and certain foreign issuers of securities. With the enactment of certain amendments in 1998, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA now also apply to foreign firms and persons who cause, directly or through agents, an act in furtherance of such a corrupt payment to take place within the territory of the United States.
The FCPA also requires companies whose securities are listed in the United States to meet its accounting provisions. See 15 U.S.C. 78m. These accounting provisions, which were designed to operate in tandem with the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA, require corporations covered by the provisions to (a) make and keep books and records that accurately and fairly reflect the transactions of the corporation and (b) devise and maintain an adequate system of internal accounting controls.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 17:10
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My first thought was why San Francisco is investigating Airbus.
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 17:32
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Originally Posted by BizJetJock View Post
I think you'll find the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act goes way beyond anything the UK deems illegal. They also have a hugely better track record of actually prosecuting those they go after. So I don't think it's a case of "leave it to the Americans". More likely the French...
A little over 20 years ago, Boeing assigned me to a foreign country - not too long after the above noted Lockheed scandal. I was told, in no uncertain terms, that if I did anything that could be construed as 'bribery', I'd be immediately fired. Problem was, the civil servants in this particular country were not well paid, and they expected nominal 'personal fees' to do their job - such as processing my long term visa application . It actually got to the point that I was going to have to leave the country because my temporary visa was about to expire. Finally the local Boeing manager came to my rescue. He grabbed some Boeing trinkets - key chains, tie clips, etc. - and together we walked my visa application through the local bureaucracy rewarding each individual with a trinket when they'd finished their particular task. We could give away trinkets - but not cash
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 19:29
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Scuffers,
Don't think it goes unnoticed, it doesn't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/bu...mens.html?_r=0

Siemens found out the hard way both in the US and other countries. It put siemens in chaos for a period of time as the management exited and the company reorganized.

Report: Siemens pays $42 million to settle Israel bribe case - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog


A number of upper management people at GE lost their jobs as a result of this, people that should have known but didn't.

COMPANY NEWS - G.E. Guilty Plea in U.S. Aid to Israel - NYTimes.com

These are just some examples, there are lots more besides these...
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 19:37
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tdracer ...
Ah, Nigonesia, I remember it well.
Home company's employees must never be involved.
Therefore local agents are required and always will be. Simple enough?
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Old 8th Aug 2016, 20:02
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There are certain countries and cultures where no transaction takes place without a measure of "lubrication". If you don't conform, your competitors get the contract. Not saying it's right, that's just the way it is.
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