Is fatigue a problem at Emirates?

[bluesideoops]

With this latest crash-landing, following previous flydubai crash, is there a serious fatigue problem in UAE?

From what I hear from the rumour mill it is a BIG problem and that Emirates schedules are punishing compared with other long-haul airlines but that could just be disgruntled employees grumbling. However, it has been mentioned with the rate of deliveries, the airline simply cannot keep up with demand for aircrew and is also losing a lot of aircrew due to the conditions.

Very interested to hear of FC experience in this area....

[bia botal]

Nothing to see here, move along, move along!

[Scudsy]

Couldn't Possibly Comment

In a word... yes

Pilots lining up to leave, lots of experience departing the company. And it's the rosters. Crippling!

[ernestkgann]

Is the pope a catholic?.......

[Twiglet1]

Suggest a quick glance at ME forums might be advisable

[Plank Cap]

Disgruntled employees grumbling ..... oh yes, you bet!

But the reality is, 102 hours this month, nine days off total with no more than two consecutive days anywhere on the roster. Mixed short, medium, long and ultra long haul ops. Oh and freighter too. Much overnight flying, much east - west. Month after month, year after year.

Those that can are leaving.......

[Plastic787]

But it's legal, so surely it's okay??

[John Marsh]

framer:

The thing is, when Plank writes 102 hours a month, only pilots who have done it, month in month out, and in similar rostering circumstances can understand. If you haven't done 'rotating shift work airline flying' then you can only try to imagine how it feels, you can't actually imagine it. The closest thing I can relate it to is having a new born baby in the house ( and being the one who looks after it).

Fair point. Has any official, unbiased research into such a working schedule and its effects been undertaken?

[TANUA]

Over the last decade Flight & Duty Limits have been increased due to Management in all countries & at all levels of Aviation. This has been to save costs & has nothing to do with safety. I am sure it will continue until disaster dictates otherwise!

[Aluminium shuffler]

Numerous disasters have already proven that fatigue won't be taken seriously by any authority, Tanua. The FAA have at least acknowledged the issue and curbed their previously very lax FTLs, but not enough. No others have the slightest interest - look at how EASA recently extended the FTLs considerably despite already significant fatigue issues in Europe. .

[LLuCCiFeR]

So will Paula Slier be a very busy girl in the upcoming weeks and months?

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/57...stigation.html

[vfenext]

The problem is not with the airlines who apply the rules but with the authorities who approve them. Pressure needs to be put on the regulators to do their jobs and stop the abuse of the FTL's.

[PPRuNeUser365796]

It's a bit hard when the boss of the regulator is the boss of the airline.

[ArchieBabe]

When the Regulator has a "closer than normal" relationship with the Operator, you're already up against it if you "complain" that you are "fatigued".

Haven't seen any actual FTL figures from EK crews (official or candid). That would be interesting. Only know a friend there who does a lot of "East then West" flying and seems to rarely get a decent "block" of days off.

As I say, a proper analysis of FTL would be interesting.

[4runner]

Remain silent or you'll be shot at dawn.

[captplaystation]

Thought beheading was the method of choice in that region

[fox niner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td_kSWUl9tY

Here is a joint press conference held by

1. The Chairman of Emirates
2. The Chairman of the investigative committee in the UAE
3. The President of the Aviation Authority of the UAE
4. The Chairman of the Airport Authority of DXB
5. Executive Member of the royal Family of Dubai

They are all sitting at the same table, commenting on the accident.

[SRS]

What more can one say about transparency?

[KABOY]

With this latest crash-landing, following previous flydubai crash, is there a serious fatigue problem in UAE?

With any accident there is the James Reason model. I think it might be time to refresh....

[Dairyground]

The thing is, when Plank writes 102 hours a month, only pilots who have done it, month in month out, and in similar rostering circumstances can understand. If you haven't done 'rotating shift work airline flying' then you can only try to imagine how it feels, you can't actually imagine it. The closest thing I can relate it to is having a new born baby in the house ( and being the one who looks after it).

Fair point. Has any official, unbiased research into such a working schedule and its effects been undertaken?

Back in the 1940s and 1950s, in the days of steam railways, locomotive crews typically worked five or six 8-hour shifts per week, starting at any time in the 24 hours. Shifts were often, but not always, fixed for a week at a time, but different every week, and sometimes varied widely from day to day. The work was both physically and mentally demanding - there is no autopilot on a steam locomotive.

Does anyone know of any fatigue-related studies done on railwaymen at the time, and would their results have any bearing on demands on flight crew today?