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RYANAIR Police Raid in Germany

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RYANAIR Police Raid in Germany

Old 6th Jul 2016, 12:32
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Arrow RYANAIR Police Raid in Germany

Police Raid in Germany today at 6 bases of Ryanair.
Keywords:

tax fraud
socialsecurity fraud
pseudo self-employment

Scheinselbstständigkeit: Razzia an sechs Ryanair-Standorten | ZEIT ONLINE

maybe use google translate
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 13:28
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RyanAir Pilot Group Statement:

https://ryanairpilotgroup.com/sites/...uly%202016.pdf

The Ryanair Pilot Group (RPG) can confirm that today (July 5), German tax authorities carried out a number of coordinated raids in at least four Ryanair bases; Cologne, Neiderrhein, Baden-Baden and Berlin SXF. It has also emerged that a number of pilots flying for Ryanair had their homes raided as part of the operation.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 13:35
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Two words for you guys: "Schadenfreude", and "Scheinselbständigkeit".
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 13:50
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Good!! About time these crooks were bought to heel.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:03
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You do realize that "these crooks" have these contracts by necessity, not by choice, and that the actual creators of this scheme do not face any police raids?

Just saying...
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown
Good!! About time these crooks were bought to heel.
Do you mean Ryanair or the crews?
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:20
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Not the crews, of course not.

Why are their vacancies filled by contract peddling contractors?

Why aren't they employed direct? You know as well as I do it is not to the crews benefit, to be.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:28
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Indeed, I just wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to go after the companies which use these schemes and not the employees.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:40
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And Ryanair the beneficiary of the contract model is letting the pilots down. Thats their statement:

"Ryanair hat sich mit den deutschen Steuerbehörden getroffen und zugestimmt, diese bezüglich ihrer Nachforschungen zu einigen Vertragspiloten ("Contractor Pilots") zu unterstützen. Die deutschen Steuerbehörden haben bestätigt, dass die Steuerfahndung nicht gegen Ryanair ermittelt. Ryanair verlangt von all seinen Piloten, sowohl solchen, die direkt angestellt sind, als auch von Vertragspiloten, dass sie sich stets entsprechend ihrer steuerlichen Pflichten verhalten. Sollten die deutschen Behörden weitere Unterstützung benötigen, bieten wir diese gerne an."
Short translation:

Ryanair has meet with the german tax authorities and agreed to support them in their investigations against some "contractor pilots" The german tax authorities have confirmed that Ryanair is not accused in this investigations.

Ryanair expect from all their pilots, direct employed or contractors that they pay all their obligated taxes.If the german authorities need more support from Ryanair in that case, Ryanair will support them.


So the pilots, Brookfield Aviation and McGinley Aviation are somehow f....d up and MOL is the Saint.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:51
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Yeah that was my point...
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:52
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The industry is rife with 'contractors'; a good example is 'contract' flight instructors whose only full-time employment is with one ATO and being paid flight pay only (with no basic salary) by ATO's that don't pay them a basic salary as employees.

There is some benefit to the 'contractor' (provided he/she gets enough flying hours) but the biggest gain is by far to the operator.

The problem is, if HMRC (UK) jump down the throats of the ATOs and insist that they are taken on the books as employees with the ensuing NI and pension costs, the cost of flight training will probably have to go up to offset the additional costs to the operator.

There are pros and cons to every argument but personally I would prefer a fixed salary; at least I know how much I will be getting each month and can budget accordingly. Back in the day, at C***** we were paid a basic salary which covered the first 40 hours of instructing and then additional flight pay for hours in excess of 40.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:54
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Oh damn, those poor pilots are screwed!

First RYR demands of them to self employ = first screw.

Then they join the police in busting this first screw = second screw.

I was once told I needed to remove a post or RYR would sue me for defamation. Let's see how long this one appears...
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 15:34
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RYR and their pilot contracts are a never ending story with the German authorities. Sadly RYR has scheme that is watertight.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 15:54
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Wait and see, there is a reason why Ryanair payed a high amount to the french authorities. Would be interesting to see what will happen with Brookfield and McGinley. Let's hope that this is only the beginning and the HMRC (UK) will knock on their door soon.....
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 17:28
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Ryanair has meet with the german tax authorities and agreed to support them in their investigations against some "contractor pilots"

I wonder if this is a chargeable optional service from Ryanair? How much do they charge the tax people per meeting/visit?
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 17:36
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I would call it a part of the "scapegoat strategy"
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 17:42
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Somewhat off topic, but in the article linkes in the first post, there was a link to another article on how Cargolux exploits its pilots:
Airlines: Ein müder Pilot | ZEIT ONLINE.

In that case, it is not about contractor pilots but about driving their pilots through insane rosters, then spying on them if their are on sick leave and then having sick meetings and firing them. Pilots are so scared they don't dare call in sick. I don't want to have a 747C drop on me at some point because the pilot was sick and tired!

The article says that there have been allegations of sick meetings at RYR, too.

The pilots fired by Cargolux are now sueing them in Luxembourg. I wish them luck. Not sure what the legal system there is. According to the article, the health insurance sets what you may do when on sick leave. Their health insurance apparently even limited the times when they could leave their house. Incredible, this is like jail!

In Germany, this is defined by federal law rather than the individual health insurance. If you are on sick leave for back pain, you'd better not be caught laying bricks for your friend. However, you are welcome do to anything you need to keep you going (such as buy food) as long as it won't considerably worsen your illness.

If you are taking antibiotics for sinusitis and cannot fly because of risk of vertigo, as given as an example in the arcticle, in Germany, you may even enjoy the sun or go for a walk or cycle, as this is likely to improve your health.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 18:01
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Personal tax is just that. Personal. The schemes by RYR and others only place the responsibility on the contractor. It is up to the contractor to pay the required contributions. Of course this means if the contractor paid the proper rates they would have less take home pay so many (not all) decide to be selective on how they declare what they earn. Citing expenses against income, dividend payments instead of income tax etc.etc.etc. Been going on for years, even in the UK.

If they prove they have paid everything owed then there will be no come back. If they've been evading tax then they deserve everything they get. I pay mine(UK PAYE) and am sick of subsidising those who think they can get away with it. Now where the German, and other countries, need to target their efforts is in the fact that RYR are not allowing fully employed pilots and thereby avoiding the employers responsibility for their proportion of tax. If the UK that is aboout 11%, so no wonder they try it on.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 18:23
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Personal tax is just that. Personal.
This is not so much about taxes, but more about social security payments (healthcare, pension, unemployment). In Germany, these must be paid, at least in part, by the employer. The rules forbid that a self employed "contractor" works full time for a single client (with some rare exceptions, but "airline pilot" is not among these).

What this airline is doing by not employing their pilots directly but contracting them as individual sub-contractors is called "Scheinselbständigkeit" (something like "pretended independence") and this is what the authorities are after. In case the authorities win their case, the airline will have to pay social security for all their pilots in Germany for up to four years retroactive.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 18:33
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In which case the problem lies with RYR. It is they then that should be targetted not the employees. so why are they going after the employees. I shall watch this with interest.
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