EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo
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I would have thought best not to entertain such thoughts as the news reporting on this accident is reaching beyond the silly mark. The latest is that the crew of a THY flight over Istanbul reported an air prox with ET an hour before MS804 went missing, suggesting an encounter with a very p`d off ET on his way home.
The last thing we want is for some journalist picking up on highflyer`s thought and trying to brow beat the ET reporter by writing something even sillier such as the crew with their singed taches running down the aisle with parachutes strapped to their backs.
The last thing we want is for some journalist picking up on highflyer`s thought and trying to brow beat the ET reporter by writing something even sillier such as the crew with their singed taches running down the aisle with parachutes strapped to their backs.
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What the USN can provide, and will provide to a variety of interested parties like the Egyptian MoD, Aviation Ministry, etc, to BEA, and others is a bit more than that. What the 6th Fleet chose to provide for the ravening maw that is the 24/7 news cycle is ... PR stuff.
You, sir, are a poet. I love it!
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Karel_x
If we are to believe the ACARS messages are genuine, it seem implausible that there was pilot error. One would expect continued transmissions but they ended abruptly. One would expect continued transmissions on the descent toward the ocean.
That could have been because of bad VHF reception but there were also no voice comms either. It just seems that the pilots must have been dealing with a serious situation that was affecting their comms and FCU/SEC. While there is always an element of mishandling in an emergency it doesn't seem likely that it was either the primary or substantial factor given the information that is so far available.
Of course it is possible that the Captain had left his seat and started randomly pulling breakers but the is not much to support this theory either.
In our case the crew might be confused and did some wrong actions too.
That could have been because of bad VHF reception but there were also no voice comms either. It just seems that the pilots must have been dealing with a serious situation that was affecting their comms and FCU/SEC. While there is always an element of mishandling in an emergency it doesn't seem likely that it was either the primary or substantial factor given the information that is so far available.
Of course it is possible that the Captain had left his seat and started randomly pulling breakers but the is not much to support this theory either.
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According to latest news from Reuters 23 body bags of body parts has been collected, the largest single part of which is no bigger than the size of the palm of a hand.
If there is any credence in this report, then there is a high likelihood that the aircraft disintegrated very rapidly at high speed, in flight, causing such devastating reduction to some if not all of those souls on board. An impact with the water is unlikely to have brought about such a result.
If there is any credence in this report, then there is a high likelihood that the aircraft disintegrated very rapidly at high speed, in flight, causing such devastating reduction to some if not all of those souls on board. An impact with the water is unlikely to have brought about such a result.
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According to latest news from Reuters 23 body bags of body parts has been collected, the largest single part of which is no bigger than the size of the palm of a hand.
If there is any credence in this report, then there is a high likelihood that the aircraft disintegrated very rapidly at high speed, in flight, causing such devastating reduction to some if not all of those souls on board. An impact with the water is unlikely to have brought about such a result.
If there is any credence in this report, then there is a high likelihood that the aircraft disintegrated very rapidly at high speed, in flight, causing such devastating reduction to some if not all of those souls on board. An impact with the water is unlikely to have brought about such a result.
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When we have the system reporting three errors with one of the circuits most likely to cause a fire (in theory, I'm not saying anything bad about Airbus) then that really is the strongest indication of the very limited information that we have to go upon. Heating circuits cause fires, on land, sea, and in the air.
If the warnings were about a failure in the galley oven (do they still have those?) most of us would nod wisely. Some of us would insist that a terrorst must have stuck a bomb in the oven...
If the warnings were about a failure in the galley oven (do they still have those?) most of us would nod wisely. Some of us would insist that a terrorst must have stuck a bomb in the oven...
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nice point Highglyer40...scary thought though!!!
@Chronus...we are not posting for journalists.They know what they can legally report.Whatever idea that makes sense I imagined is welcome.If in fact highflyer40 might be correct is there enough fire extinguishing capability ftom the fwd galley or cabin?Food for thought Mr Airbus.
@Chronus...we are not posting for journalists.They know what they can legally report.Whatever idea that makes sense I imagined is welcome.If in fact highflyer40 might be correct is there enough fire extinguishing capability ftom the fwd galley or cabin?Food for thought Mr Airbus.
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Sadly from personal knowledge of a friend who perished in a light aircraft impact into the sea, and from only 4000ft not FL370, the human frame is no match for such an impact and will disintegrate without needing an in-flight break-up, whereas the airframe can survive in much larger sections
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Agreed...as one who was at the morgue for Swissair 111, I can attest to the horrible fragmentation of bodies in a high speed impact with water. Contrast this with aircraft that have disintegrated in the air...those bodies tend to be more intact.
Question for a Bus driver
I have heard that the Bus is quite a handful, especially without automatic pilot and computer aided controls, and at altitude.
Is this fact?
Is this fact?
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Any commercial aircraft will be more challenging to hand fly at or near the service ceiling compared to down low. Doubtful? Try it in a sim sometime.
Molly-coddling FBW systems alongside the near constant use of automatics (not just limited to the Airbus) has led international aviation safety organizations to publish guidance on preventing the erosion of basic piloting skills due to these safety 'enhancements'.
Molly-coddling FBW systems alongside the near constant use of automatics (not just limited to the Airbus) has led international aviation safety organizations to publish guidance on preventing the erosion of basic piloting skills due to these safety 'enhancements'.
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Seems like some more info is about to drip.... maybe some raw ACARS data too?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/greece-st...171.html?nhp=1
https://www.yahoo.com/news/greece-st...171.html?nhp=1
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Now, Greek DOD was allegedly wrong about radar tracking showing that the aircraft departed from altitude at FL370... say "head of Egyptair navigation services".
EgyptAir plane 'did not swerve' before crash - AJE News
Everything "leaked" so far is looking as reliable as usual...
EgyptAir plane 'did not swerve' before crash - AJE News
Everything "leaked" so far is looking as reliable as usual...
I am not sure of the distance to the Greek Radar station and whether it can actually receive an echo for the primary radar target at the same distance and height as the aircraft. One reference suggests that a range of 220 nautical miles at 40,000 feet for (primary ?) radar to see past the curvature of the earth. I am sure that there are a host of other more sophisticated systems but I find it difficult to believe that Greek radar so far away could detect a turn and descent and a circling and further descent to 10,000 feet using Primary Radar and even using Secondary Radar if the aircraft transponder was still responding.
It is further strange that Egyptian Radar, which should have been closer, was unable to detect the same data as the Greeks.
Old Boeing Driver;
Re,
I have to differ with vapilot2004 regarding hand-flying the A320, A330, A340 at cruise altitudes.
Long before RVSM rules I (and others) hand-flew the A320 to cruise altitude and often descent, approach & landing from top-of-descent. The airplanes are easy to fly and are not a "handful" at all; but one must have the hand, (no feet!) skills, obviously, and perhaps today that is not quite the case it was.
One must of course always bear in mind DP Davies' cautions and be gentle with the aircraft at such altitudes. The A330 and A340 were similarly easy to fly at cruise altitudes, both maintaining altitude and speed with gentle, tiny corrections, just as one would with any transport aircraft in cruise. It isn't "work", but as with any aircraft left to its own devices, it will try to get away with all it can...
Re,
I have heard that the Bus is quite a handful, especially without automatic pilot and computer aided controls, and at altitude.
Is this fact?
Is this fact?
Long before RVSM rules I (and others) hand-flew the A320 to cruise altitude and often descent, approach & landing from top-of-descent. The airplanes are easy to fly and are not a "handful" at all; but one must have the hand, (no feet!) skills, obviously, and perhaps today that is not quite the case it was.
One must of course always bear in mind DP Davies' cautions and be gentle with the aircraft at such altitudes. The A330 and A340 were similarly easy to fly at cruise altitudes, both maintaining altitude and speed with gentle, tiny corrections, just as one would with any transport aircraft in cruise. It isn't "work", but as with any aircraft left to its own devices, it will try to get away with all it can...
Hand flying the beast
Thanks, PJ.
Unless in a reversion mode, the 'bus seems to be very forgiving and a pleasure to fly.
As we have seen with the AF 447 and then the Indonesian 'bus, the reversion modes can be challenging if you have not done some sim work or having survived an actual backup mnode reversion at 35K.
Unless in a reversion mode, the 'bus seems to be very forgiving and a pleasure to fly.
As we have seen with the AF 447 and then the Indonesian 'bus, the reversion modes can be challenging if you have not done some sim work or having survived an actual backup mnode reversion at 35K.
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Look ma, no handfuls here. ;)
OBD:
Any commercial aircraft will be more challenging to hand fly at or near the service ceiling compared to down low. Doubtful? Try it in a sim sometime.
Molly-coddling FBW systems alongside the near constant use of automatics (not just limited to the Airbus) has led international aviation safety organizations to publish guidance on preventing the erosion of basic piloting skills due to these safety 'enhancements'.
Any commercial aircraft will be more challenging to hand fly at or near the service ceiling compared to down low. Doubtful? Try it in a sim sometime.
Molly-coddling FBW systems alongside the near constant use of automatics (not just limited to the Airbus) has led international aviation safety organizations to publish guidance on preventing the erosion of basic piloting skills due to these safety 'enhancements'.