Aeromexico lands at wrong airport
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Aeromexico lands at wrong airport
Interesting story here:
Aeroméxico flight to Monterrey lands at wrong airport
Landing in the wrong place is bad enough, but taking off again after just ten minutes seems incredible to me. I don't know how they'd have managed their performance calculations in that time...
Aeroméxico flight to Monterrey lands at wrong airport
Landing in the wrong place is bad enough, but taking off again after just ten minutes seems incredible to me. I don't know how they'd have managed their performance calculations in that time...
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Del Norte International Airport - The most user friendly airport in Mixico
6000 foot runway. No problem for an Embraer.
6000 foot runway. No problem for an Embraer.
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I don't know how they'd have managed their performance calculations in that time...
How exactly would arrogance lead a crew (an arrogant crew??) to land at the wrong airport?
Fatigue, complacency, habit, carelessness I can see, but arrogance (or training for that matter) seems pretty left-field reasons to put it mildly.
Despite rumours to the contrary the report only says they've been suspended pending investigation, no mention of being sacked. Even so, why the heck not sack them? What else to do with them? Do you retain a doctor for the fluffy treatment when he's just removed the wrong leg?
How the heck does anyone mistake a 1400m local strip for a 3000m international airport? Perhaps someone can post pics of the two for comparison, they are so very different. The only similarity seems to be both have a Rwy 29.
Baffling.
Fatigue, complacency, habit, carelessness I can see, but arrogance (or training for that matter) seems pretty left-field reasons to put it mildly.
Despite rumours to the contrary the report only says they've been suspended pending investigation, no mention of being sacked. Even so, why the heck not sack them? What else to do with them? Do you retain a doctor for the fluffy treatment when he's just removed the wrong leg?
How the heck does anyone mistake a 1400m local strip for a 3000m international airport? Perhaps someone can post pics of the two for comparison, they are so very different. The only similarity seems to be both have a Rwy 29.
Baffling.
Last edited by Wageslave; 5th Apr 2016 at 10:00.
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Punishment is the idiot's (non) solution.
Performance from a 2,000 M runway will take a few minutes tops. Flight planning for an airfield 9 nm distant can be done on the back of a fag packet. The loadsheet from the initial departure will show no limits will be broken and depending on its format, may even spit out the trim setting, if required. So what next? Backtrack - set up - brief - blast off. Next?
The big issue is the treatment of the crew. Which numbskull will tell me how sacking them will fix the problem? The problem was that it for some reason this crew believed they were at the correct airport. When that had been answered, you then set about fixing the problem. Sacking people sends only sends the message that if you ever screw up you will be punished. And then your problems as a company really start. Because from then on, the management will be running a totally safe airline. There will be no reports, no ASRs, CVRs will be "erased", FDM recorders "disabled", etc. Furthermore, your aircraft might now be flown to inefficiently that you might find the company's existance is in jeopardy. In addition nobody will own up to anything, just in case what they have done will be perceived as a mistake. The result will eventually be a totally shocking smoking hole in the ground. One that could have been prevented if only they knew they had a problem.
Punishment of people who were trying to do the right thing is a halfwitted, myopic, ill-considered course of action taken by stupid, ignorant bullies.
PM
The big issue is the treatment of the crew. Which numbskull will tell me how sacking them will fix the problem? The problem was that it for some reason this crew believed they were at the correct airport. When that had been answered, you then set about fixing the problem. Sacking people sends only sends the message that if you ever screw up you will be punished. And then your problems as a company really start. Because from then on, the management will be running a totally safe airline. There will be no reports, no ASRs, CVRs will be "erased", FDM recorders "disabled", etc. Furthermore, your aircraft might now be flown to inefficiently that you might find the company's existance is in jeopardy. In addition nobody will own up to anything, just in case what they have done will be perceived as a mistake. The result will eventually be a totally shocking smoking hole in the ground. One that could have been prevented if only they knew they had a problem.
Punishment of people who were trying to do the right thing is a halfwitted, myopic, ill-considered course of action taken by stupid, ignorant bullies.
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Wageslave
They also both have a runway 11. One would assume that they were on a visual for 11 and thus saw Del Norte first. As for identifying one airport from the other in terms of size I would suggest that may not be as easy as you seem to imply, certainly from a distance. As the aircraft gets closer I would also imagine that the crew are concentrating on the runway (PF) and instruments (PNF) for call outs, and not admiring the surrounding scenery. Of course it would be interesting to know if they had set up their instruments for say an ILS or other type of approach which would have warned them that something wasn't quite right, but I don't know what aids the airport has.
Note: Del Norte Runway 11/29 is reported as 5049 feet long - though still ample for the Embraer.
Edit: From what I have found 11 has an ILS and there's a VOR-DME on the airport.
They also both have a runway 11. One would assume that they were on a visual for 11 and thus saw Del Norte first. As for identifying one airport from the other in terms of size I would suggest that may not be as easy as you seem to imply, certainly from a distance. As the aircraft gets closer I would also imagine that the crew are concentrating on the runway (PF) and instruments (PNF) for call outs, and not admiring the surrounding scenery. Of course it would be interesting to know if they had set up their instruments for say an ILS or other type of approach which would have warned them that something wasn't quite right, but I don't know what aids the airport has.
Note: Del Norte Runway 11/29 is reported as 5049 feet long - though still ample for the Embraer.
Edit: From what I have found 11 has an ILS and there's a VOR-DME on the airport.
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The airline hasn’t issued an official statement regarding the incident, but has announced that the two pilots —whose names haven’t been disclosed — would be dismissed today.
Punishment of people who were trying to do the right thing is a halfwitted, myopic, ill-considered course of action taken by stupid, ignorant bullies.
PM
PM
Or should we wait for the official report to be published before we discount the possibility of a hitherto unknown knurled flange-bracket failure or alien invasion causing these people who "were trying to do the right thing" (we know this for a fact, do we?)
to screw up so uncharacteristically?
Some things are so clear cut and beyond the pale that there is no alternative. Find out why by all means, but do the public deserve to be flown around by people capable of such gross and inexcusable error as landing in the wrong place? Apart from that, what do you imagine Aeromexico's insurers are going to say? Imagine they do the fluffy no blame thing? Imagine again.
I doubt the public would agree that this is a time to let people off with a with counselling or tickling with a fluffy stick PM. There is perhaps sometimes a time and a place for the zero blame culture but this does not seem to be it. There is a world of difference between "shall not" and "should not". This is most definitely the latter, and in spades. This is an airline operation where Professional standards apply, not a council office.
It clearly wasn't an instrument approach so just how the heck can you even begin to justify landing visually at the wrong airport? Clearly you cannot.
ps. You's better go look up the meaning of bully, because I don't think you've quite got it...
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The public deserve to be safely flown by pilots who know what they are doing. That means proper training appropriate to their function. The knowledge of what to train pilots depends on their background, the type of operation, the terrain over which they fly and their environment - topographically, economically & politically. So unless you have clear knowledge about these I can not see how anybody can ask for their dismissal.
I also didn't talk about no-blame. These pilots should be accountable and quite rightly so. But that doesn't mean you sack them. It appears Wageslave might like to have them flogged as well. That would send an even clearer massage. But the sensible thing to do is use these guys to help build a safer world.
And while we are talking sanctions Wageslave, do you have a retribution scale? Say hard landing = one month's pay, burst tyre = weeks suspension, overspeed = sack. Punishment is the past, the future is trying to prevent incidents. And we do that by fixing things before they break. People with your approach will clog the arteries of information flow. And if you are indicative of your airline, god help your passengers.
PM
I also didn't talk about no-blame. These pilots should be accountable and quite rightly so. But that doesn't mean you sack them. It appears Wageslave might like to have them flogged as well. That would send an even clearer massage. But the sensible thing to do is use these guys to help build a safer world.
And while we are talking sanctions Wageslave, do you have a retribution scale? Say hard landing = one month's pay, burst tyre = weeks suspension, overspeed = sack. Punishment is the past, the future is trying to prevent incidents. And we do that by fixing things before they break. People with your approach will clog the arteries of information flow. And if you are indicative of your airline, god help your passengers.
PM
gross and inexcusable error
Embarrassing to be sure, and one of those things that fit into "how did you get that wrong?" but let's consider this:
- nobody got hurt
- a few extra pesos spent on fuel (maybe a few extra pesos spent for a landing at a place they don't have an arrangement with?)
- pax got to their destination a little late, which can happen with a weather delay, or a divert due to weather ...
Yeah, the chief pilot needs to sit down with the crew and go over just how one manages to get to the wrong place with all of the help available nowadays to not get lost. Some time in the penalty box probably due.
This isn't the first crew that ever did that.
(EDIT: latest report is that they took off without clearance and without a flight plan. If true, then it's no surprise if they got sacked. The company can't have their pilots doing that).
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 6th Apr 2016 at 12:20.
I believe a private jet taking Jenson Button from Monaco to Bristol a few years back landed at Filton instead of Lulsgate. I only know as I enquired as to the owner of a rather shiny motor with a private plate parked at BFC...
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Unfortunately, they had been fired
Despedidos pilotos de Aeromexico Connect que se equivocaron de Aeropuerto ? Transponder 1200 (in Spanish)
Despedidos pilotos de Aeromexico Connect que se equivocaron de Aeropuerto ? Transponder 1200 (in Spanish)